Abortion

I'm not very understanding? I completely understand why people have the views they do.

Firstly, my point of saying that women can become suicidal was not to patronise. It was to introduce the stance that I was coming from on page 24. You don't half jump to conclusions.

Secondly, exactly what impact on the law do you think this debate is actually going to have?
It's a stupid little debate on a student forum.
It has no bearing on the law now, or ever!
No matter whether people on here "want to change the law" or not, it makes not one single itsy bitsy teeny weeny scrap of difference!

Just because you didn't mean to be patronising doesn't mean you weren't but that was a misunderstanding: I apologise for being sarcastic, I'm sorry that you clearly had a horrible experience too. Let's leave it now.

I am aware this is only a forum but it is also, I am only too acutely aware, a microcosm of real life. Everywhere I go there are people who could be any one of these users. Just because this debate is safely confined to the internet doesn't mean it has no bearing on real life: abortion and its legality/morality/etc etc is a very relevant political issue still. MPs and commentators still debate this issue all the time, and I would also not be overly surprised if at least one member of TSR went on to become a politican at some point in their lives. People have to start somewhere.

Exactly - you've hit the nail on the head - no method is 100% effective.
Everybody knows that this is true.
Thus, if somebody knows this, yet chooses to have sex anyway, they should accept the possible consequences!
If they are not willing to accept the consequences, they should not be having sex.

They should accept the consequences, even at the expense of their future child? You would honestly argue that a responsible, academic teenage couple exploring sex for the first time who are let down by the contraception they have so carefully planned not only deserve to be saddled with a baby at 16 years old, to have their chance of an education and a real career taken away from them, but also that the child should suffer because it was born to parents that weren't ready for a child and resent it evermore because of this? REALLY? I could never reconcile the right to life with the right to a life regardless of the suffering it may contain. People imply that women who have abortions are selfish and just didn't consider the consequences but what about the woman who, while herself being desperate for a child to love and nurture, aborts her pregnancy due to her only-too-realistic knowledge that her life situation would only be conducive to a miserable childhood on the part of her baby?

I think this is the closest you have come to admitting the truth behind your stance, i.e. that you and many others have these moralistic views not on the basis of the baby's right to life but on the basis that the unfortunate women who accidentally get pregnant are under some obligation to be punished.

Well firstly the teenage couple could very well wait until later to have sex. There is no shame in being a virgin. Some teenagers in America take oaths to remain virgins until they are married.

Secondly, if they DO choose to have sex, and woopsy it goes a bit wrong, although it is not as preferable as facing up to their actions, the alternative is to put it up for adoption.

Thirdly, I can't really believe that a woman who is "desperate for a child to love and nurture" would abort. Someone who is desperate for a child is obviously experiencing very strong maternal instincts. Those instincts would naturally stop her from aborting a baby. Don't underestimate the strength of the emotion of maternal instincts.

Well arguing about sex before marriage is a WHOLE other kettle of fish I think so we'll just leave it there. I think having sex is an important part of growing up, and don't think responsible people should be punished (including by going through a pregnancy, which would probably be enough to ruin both of their teenage years, only to give the child up at the end).

And you might not believe that the scenario I mentioned would happen, but trust me it does and will continue to happen. Instincts do not always override rational thought or there is a good chance I would be typing this with a three year old asleep in the next room.

Your mis-understanding just highlights that you do not understand, or at best, have not read any of my arguments. I believe the baby has a right to life, not that the woman should be punished. That is just too petty! Substantiate your claim, please. You are using my words and trying to find a hidden motive which is not there. Stop twisting my argument into something you can discredit me for. That really is scraping the bottom of the barrel mate. It's not very honourable of you.




This is really getting tedious. Read my other claims please, don't judge me on my (relatively) absent period. I openly admit that contraception fails, and have given and justified (yes, justifying ) my views on the matter. I have never believed what your first sentence implies I believed. This only highlights your limited understanding of my argument, or at least just trying to find anything to attack us.

Just face it. I'm admitting it is a difficult ethical subject. Why can't you? The decision does not just involve the woman, but is an ethical question for society as a whole.




Recycling old arguments that I've already laid to rest... I stated only a few posts back that the inticacies of each case should be judged. Why can't you listen? Please! It is after all, important in a debate.

Your insulting claim that I favour punishing women rather favouring potential life is a fatuous claim. Read my arguments. Be just a tad more educated when judging me. Don't just pick small things out and use it to say I'm a mysogenist. Not all anti-abortionists are mysogenists. This accusation just tells me something about your opportunistic character.

Good day to you sir!

Please, no more outrageous claims. Hopefully I won't be provoked again. Accept that others disagree, especially when they have provided justifications yet to be challenged. Your opinions are equally as valuable; that is equally as valuable as the rest. Just remember that.

how can you be sad that a teenager (sorry jen im assuming) hasnt got a child ^o) children are a blessing if you want them not if you dont

Truthfully I'm sorry that you aren't.
Children are such a blessing. Honestly, they do not ruin your life, they only make it better.

I don't think you're a bad person or anything, you don't believe that you were doing anything wrong, but I can't help but feel sad for what you're missing out on.

I'm not saying that to be horrible, don't take it the wrong way, I just genuinely do feel sad about it.

ETA: I assume you mean you had an abortion in that case.
If that's totally wrong just ignore me - but it's what it sounds like you're saying.
I know somebody said at one point in this thread that they had one, I can't remember who it was though, perhaps it was you.

Truthfully I'm sorry that you aren't.
Children are such a blessing. Honestly, they do not ruin your life, they only make it better.

I don't think you're a bad person or anything, you don't believe that you were doing anything wrong, but I can't help but feel sad for what you're missing out on.

I'm not saying that to be horrible, don't take it the wrong way, I just genuinely do feel sad about it.

ETA: I assume you mean you had an abortion in that case.
If that's totally wrong just ignore me - but it's what it sounds like you're saying.
I know somebody said at one point in this thread that they had one, I can't remember who it was though, perhaps it was you.

Personally I would rather have a baby when I am ready because then i'd appreciate it more. Personally I do think it would ruin my life- it would mean that i couldn't get a degree, i couldn't be a lawyer, i couldn't travel the world as I have a planned, basically it would ruin my life. I am sure for you it's lovely and maybe you were ready, but i am not so don't pity people who are 17/18/19 without children. You certainly shouldn't feel sad. At least we can do what we planned with our life without a baby holding us back.

no because some people (me) are pretty positive that kids dont fit in with the plan now. i dont want to sacrifice my future for the sake of a child i dont want. and you havent answered my question (u may not have seen it). did you consider your daughter?

How do you even know I was aiming my posts at you? The very fact that you felt obliged to respond suggests to me that something must have rung true.