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Reply 1940

I have mixed feelings on abortion, although as an Atheist none of these have religious groundings. In circumstances when a woman or girl has made a mistake, I don't feel that they should have to live with it for the rest of their live by having a child. If however, abortion is used casually as a way of contraception (as it is with some), then I think it's morally wrong.

Reply 1941

Time to be pragmatic. Abortions are always going to happen. They always have and always will.

Question for pro-lifers:

Would you rather have safe clean abortions or dangerous backstreet abortions?

Safe abortion = fetus looses its 'life'.

Backstreet abortion = fetus looses its 'life', and a significant amount of women loose their lives too.

So if you want abortion to become illegal you are forcing backstreet abortions. Not very pro-life is it?

Reply 1942

Tufts
Time to be pragmatic. Abortions are always going to happen. They always have and always will.

Question for pro-lifers:

Would you rather have safe clean abortions or dangerous backstreet abortions?

Safe abortion = fetus looses its 'life'.

Backstreet abortion = fetus looses its 'life', and a significant amount of women loose their lives too.

So if you want abortion to become illegal you are forcing backstreet abortions. Not very pro-life is it?

I have never heard of a decent counter-argument against this practical perspective.

I shudder to the thought of 'backstreet abortion' :s-smilie:

Reply 1943

Lord Hysteria
I have never heard of a decent counter-argument against this practical perspective.

I shudder to the thought of 'backstreet abortion' :s-smilie:


Aye, have you seen the film Vera Drake?

It's on Youtube.

Reply 1944

Tufts
Aye, have you seen the film Vera Drake?

It's on Youtube.

oh no. It doesn't look like an entertainment movie :s-smilie:.

Reply 1945

Lord Hysteria
oh no. It doesn't look like an entertainment movie :s-smilie:.


It's not :frown: We watched it as part of our law degree at Durham.

Another relevant vid on Youtube is "The Coat Hanger Project".

Reply 1946

Tufts
It's not :frown: We watched it as part of our law degree at Durham.

Another relevant vid on Youtube is "The Coat Hanger Project".

Oh God...

:afraid:

Reply 1947

Kinkerz
Oh God...

:afraid:


Yup. You don't even have to look it up to know what it's about.

Ironic that pro-lifers would like to see us return to coathanger abortions.

Reply 1948

Tufts
Yup. You don't even have to look it up to know what it's about.

Ironic that pro-lifers would like to see us return to coathanger abortions.

Or they're skeptical (sceptical? I never know which is right...) about how many would turn to backstreet abortions.

Reply 1949

Kinkerz
Or they're skeptical (sceptical? I never know which is right...) about how many would turn to backstreet abortions.


Sceptical or not. A significant amount of women who are denied safe legal abortion turn to backstreet abortion. This is fact. Pro-lifers like to gloss over this.

Reply 1950

Kinkerz
Or they're skeptical (sceptical? I never know which is right...) about how many would turn to backstreet abortions.

Sceptical about what?

It has already happened.

That movie title sends a chill down my spine :s-smilie:

Reply 1951

Lord Hysteria
Sceptical about what?

It has already happened.

That movie title sends a chill down my spine :s-smilie:

Sceptical about how many would actually turn to backstreet abortion. I'm pro-choice; I understand that a significant number would, but I'm trying to put myself in a pro-life person's shoes.

Reply 1952

Kinkerz
Sceptical about how many would actually turn to backstreet abortion. I'm pro-choice; I understand that a significant number would, but I'm trying to put myself in a pro-life person's shoes.


A lot of pro-lifers fuel their stance by a desire to punish women for having sex. If you look closely at their arguments it always crops up. Watch out for comments such as "she chose to open her legs", "if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have sex", etc, etc.

No recognition of the fact that sex has many purposes, not just reproduction.

Reply 1953

Tufts
A lot of pro-lifers fuel their stance by a desire to punish women for having sex. If you look closely at their arguments it always crops up. Watch out for comments such as "she chose to open her legs", "if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have sex", etc, etc.

No recognition of the fact that sex has many purposes, not just reproduction.

:s-smilie:

Yeah I've come across it before. Things like: "you should've have sex if you're not ready to accept the consequences", "if you're not ready to have a child, don't have sex". Which would probably mean the vast majority of people having sex 'shouldn't be'.

Reply 1954

Tufts
A lot of pro-lifers fuel their stance by a desire to punish women for having sex. If you look closely at their arguments it always crops up. Watch out for comments such as "she chose to open her legs", "if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have sex", etc, etc.

No recognition of the fact that sex has many purposes, not just reproduction.

i concurr! also the classic "i'm only for it in the case of rape"- either it's morally wrong to kill a foetus, or it's not. it's still a foetus, regardless of how it was conceived. people who think people should only be allowed abortions if they've been raped are seemingly just against women having any kind of sexual freedom, and if the foetus was conceived consenually then she's a "dirty slag" who should be punished with nine months forced gestation...

oh, and something like 50% of abortions that happen worldwide are in countries where it's illegal (although i can't find the source, arrgh). so clearly, abortion being made illegal would do very little to stop it..

Reply 1955

Tufts
Time to be pragmatic. Abortions are always going to happen. They always have and always will.

Question for pro-lifers:

Would you rather have safe clean abortions or dangerous backstreet abortions?

Safe abortion = fetus looses its 'life'.

Backstreet abortion = fetus looses its 'life', and a significant amount of women loose their lives too.

So if you want abortion to become illegal you are forcing backstreet abortions. Not very pro-life is it?

Tufts
A lot of pro-lifers fuel their stance by a desire to punish women for having sex. If you look closely at their arguments it always crops up. Watch out for comments such as "she chose to open her legs", "if she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have sex", etc, etc.

No recognition of the fact that sex has many purposes, not just reproduction.


QFT :yep:

Reply 1956

I killed the thread with awesomeness.

Any pro-lifers want to bite?

Reply 1957

I always thought that people should be able to do whatever they wanted when it came to abortion because it's their body and their life. Who am I to say what they can and cannot do?

Reply 1958

doloroushazy


oh, and something like 50% of abortions that happen worldwide are in countries where it's illegal (although i can't find the source, arrgh). so clearly, abortion being made illegal would do very little to stop it..


I heard this too a long time ago.... just becauamse something is illegal doesn't mean people will stop. Sure it'll stop some people but others will just go to more extreme routes...

Reply 1959

Young Spade
I heard this too a long time ago.... just becauamse something is illegal doesn't mean people will stop. Sure it'll stop some people but others will just go to more extreme routes...


And dangerous. If it's illegal you get backstreet abortions and therefore a lot more deaths of the women.

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