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Reply 1
It's a pretty contentious issue. Officially they should be the same, but I don't really see how a course where all the students have AAA at A level can be compared to one where the students have DDE or something. Obviously that's reflected in the fact the better unis award more Firsts and 2.1s, but even taking that into account, I think they're must be some difference. There is a girl I know at Warwick who is really quite intelligent and is borderline 2.2/2.1 and is quite annoyed some of her friends with much worse A levels (and having met some I can say, without malice, they're not overly bright) are on course for solid 2.1s at unis lower down the league tables.
Having said that, I think employers do ten to take the uni you went to into account.
Having said that, I think employers do ten to take the uni you went to into account.
Reply 2
Technically they're worth the same. Nonetheless, I'm (supposed) to do 30+ hours a week for my History degree, with one essay every week; I know people doing History who have two or three essays each (50% longer) term and say that this is high workload...
Yes employers tend to take the university you went to into account, but having said that degrees from Oxbridge and the top unis arn't necessarily a passport to a job as much as they used to be. A 3rd from Oxford isn't worth more than a First from Nottingham Trent (to pick a uni at random, I saw someone from their rowing team today), whereas people would generally say that an Oxford first is harder to get and therefore says more about a person than a Nottingham Trent First.
Yes employers tend to take the university you went to into account, but having said that degrees from Oxbridge and the top unis arn't necessarily a passport to a job as much as they used to be. A 3rd from Oxford isn't worth more than a First from Nottingham Trent (to pick a uni at random, I saw someone from their rowing team today), whereas people would generally say that an Oxford first is harder to get and therefore says more about a person than a Nottingham Trent First.
Reply 3
of course they're not the same..an economics degree from cambridge/lse/ucl/oxford/warick is much much much (i cannot stress how much) more harder than an economics degree from GRENWICK uni or pretty much any other uni inthe uk..
Reply 4
Depends on the degree, the university.
Every university that I'm aware of demands the same amount of reading per week. However, at Oxford in PPE for example, you will get more targets to achieve than at other second tier universities. What I mean by that is you get one or two essays a week doing PPE, whereas other university politics courses may only require 5 essays a term. However, the difference being that they're all assessed. At Oxford, weekly essays are not assessed.
Overall, I would say that the 'better' the university the MORE students you will find that are willing to exceed themselves to do well, and thus, you will get higher marks overall and generally a better, more well read class of student. However, we must not assume that all Oxbridge students are more studious or well read than ALL students from lesser unis.
To return to the OP's original question, I would say that it is harder at the top 10-15 unis because of the fact that MORE students are willing to put the work in and thus they all motivate each other to do better. One assumes that this isn't the case at a place like Nottingham Trent for example, where perhaps only three out of 30 students on a particular course might be studious and hardworking.
Every university that I'm aware of demands the same amount of reading per week. However, at Oxford in PPE for example, you will get more targets to achieve than at other second tier universities. What I mean by that is you get one or two essays a week doing PPE, whereas other university politics courses may only require 5 essays a term. However, the difference being that they're all assessed. At Oxford, weekly essays are not assessed.
Overall, I would say that the 'better' the university the MORE students you will find that are willing to exceed themselves to do well, and thus, you will get higher marks overall and generally a better, more well read class of student. However, we must not assume that all Oxbridge students are more studious or well read than ALL students from lesser unis.
To return to the OP's original question, I would say that it is harder at the top 10-15 unis because of the fact that MORE students are willing to put the work in and thus they all motivate each other to do better. One assumes that this isn't the case at a place like Nottingham Trent for example, where perhaps only three out of 30 students on a particular course might be studious and hardworking.
Reply 5
There is a girl I know at Warwick who is really quite intelligent and is borderline 2.2/2.1 and is quite annoyed some of her friends with much worse A levels(and having met some I can say, without malice, they're not overly bright) are on course for solid 2.1s at unis lower down the league tables..
How can you judge such a thing? Who the hell are you? This kind of thing is completely subjective, and unless you are a lecturer and have read their written work, then what you have said is a pathetic argument for why higher tier uni degrees are harder. I hate these type of anecdotal arguments. Maybe your friend isn't as intelligent as she thinks and has found her level at Warwick. It is very possible for some people to improve their ways after their A levels and become a far better student by the time they reach uni. I hate this snobbish attitude.
Reply 6
swallows
I Officially they should be the same, but I don't really see how a course where all the students have AAA at A level can be compared to one where the students have DDE or something.
Entry requirements are not just based on the acedemic standard of the degree course. It's about supply and demand and the popularity of that course. For instance - you could take a Sports degree which to the old school people will see far easier than say a Maths or History degree but yet, because so many people are wanting to do it - entry requirements are now three A grades. Look at the entry requirements for a science based degree - a B and 2 C grades in some places; why? because no-one's interested in doing the sciences
A-levels dont matter when you're at univeristy. I've got people on my course who have 3 B grades plus but yet are averaging the same marks of those with lower A-level grades (myself included). University work is also about the individual: you could have someone with 3 C grades who graduates with a 2:1due to their sheer determination and effort. Where as you could have a straight A or B student who doesn't work nearly as hard and comes out with a 2:2
The standard is meant to the same throughout, but who knows, there are many pitfalls to this arguement
Reply 7
14
Econ4m1t
of course they're not the same..an economics degree from cambridge/lse/ucl/oxford/warick is much much much (i cannot stress how much) more harder than an economics degree from GRENWICK uni or pretty much any other uni inthe uk..
GRENWICK?.....wow and your at UCL?
Reply 8
14
swallows
It's a pretty contentious issue. Officially they should be the same, but I don't really see how a course where all the students have AAA at A level can be compared to one where the students have DDE or something. Obviously that's reflected in the fact the better unis award more Firsts and 2.1s, but even taking that into account, I think they're must be some difference. There is a girl I know at Warwick who is really quite intelligent and is borderline 2.2/2.1 and is quite annoyed some of her friends with much worse A levels (and having met some I can say, without malice, they're not overly bright) are on course for solid 2.1s at unis lower down the league tables.
Having said that, I think employers do ten to take the uni you went to into account.
Having said that, I think employers do ten to take the uni you went to into account.
Unless your going into IB then no......yet another with an opinion yet has never worked a day in their lives
Reply 9
Stue
OP
1
..
Reply 10
Unless your going into IB then no......yet another with an opinion yet has never worked a day in their lives
Haha! I'm fully aware that employers take a number of factors into account when making decisions, and I am also fully aware, with a brother who has been a recuritment and selection advisor for 8 years, that the uni you go to DOES affect the way people see your CV. You're deluded if you think otherwise.
He even said when some employers see a particular uni on a CV, or even a 2-2, they launch it straight in the bin... He also said that if some employers see someone with no experience they will do the same, regardless of qualifications (You may say this is purely anecdotal evidence but I can't think of any reason he would lie to me about it).
Yes, experience etc. are all important, but so is your degree and where you did it, otherwise why would people even bother going to uni in the first place? Why would they try to excel at school to get into good unis if, as you seem to think, they're all the same? Are you seriously saying a degree from the University of East London will be looked at in the same way as one from a top 10/20 uni? You're wrong if you are.
A number of factors combine to influence an employer's decision, including lots of things not related to your course, but to deny the fact that the university you attend is one of them is simplistic and misguided.
Reply 11
14
I gave an example of an occupation which specifically recruits from the 'elite' universities.
The reason i stated what i did, is because no matter what university you get your degree in, in majority of occupations, as long as you have the desire and work ethic then there no reason for you not to succeed in your chosen field.
Unfortunately this whole forum has a tendency to take the times university guide as bible.
The reason i stated what i did, is because no matter what university you get your degree in, in majority of occupations, as long as you have the desire and work ethic then there no reason for you not to succeed in your chosen field.
Unfortunately this whole forum has a tendency to take the times university guide as bible.
Reply 12
I gave an example of an occupation which specifically recruits from the 'elite' universities.
The reason i stated what i did, is because no matter what university you get your degree in, in majority of occupations, as long as you have the desire and work ethic then there no reason for you not to succeed in your chosen field.
Unfortunately this whole forum has a tendency to take the times university guide as bible.
The reason i stated what i did, is because no matter what university you get your degree in, in majority of occupations, as long as you have the desire and work ethic then there no reason for you not to succeed in your chosen field.
Unfortunately this whole forum has a tendency to take the times university guide as bible.
And I said "employers do tend to take the uni you went to into account." And I am right. I wasn't questioning the fact that hard work goes a long way, I was saying the uni you work hard to get into is also taken into account. I don't really see what your problem with my statement was, unless you just assumed I also take the Time Uni guide as Bible...
Reply 13
swallows
And I said "employers do tend to take the uni you went to into account." And I am right.
This is true. However, a lot of what you have said is questionable.
Reply 14
is 'glass universities' a real term? i love it if it is
Reply 15
FadeToBlackout
Technically they're worth the same. Nonetheless, I'm (supposed) to do 30+ hours a week for my History degree, with one essay every week; I know people doing History who have two or three essays each (50% longer) term and say that this is high workload...
You know, you don't get a prize for how hard you work.
Reply 16
not
is 'glass universities' a real term? i love it if it is
It should be 'plate glass universities'. Look on wikipedia.
Reply 17
Pretty Boy Floyd:
While anecdotal evidence may be a personal instance and you may choose to disregard it, your statement is also a personal opinion and I take it with a similar amount of eye rolling (if you'd actually made a decent point I wouldn't have however).
It's pretty easy to spot a thickie, despite what political correctness may tell you... In this case, a lack of intelligence in conversation and a btach of dodgy A level grades to back up the fact they aren't overly academic, = they're not the sharpest tools. My friend, who does come across intelligently in conversation and has a batch of good A levels struggles at uni, possibly because she is competing against a group of people who are also of high intelligence and someone has to slip through the net.
How you can think that students with AAA at A level are the same as students with DDE is beyond me. Fine, A levels aren't the best way to judge intelligence, and they don't suit everyone. There may be specific circumstances as to why someone did particularly badly, but other than a few exceptions, how can you say that somehow all of these DDE students are suddenly capable of great things at uni? Is there some mass epiphany which transforms mediocrity into something more? If they were suited to academic study they would (for the most part) have done well at school. There really isn't that much difference between school and university. Just how are you suggesting they have managed to become a 'far better student by the time they reach uni'?? I suggest a lot of what you say is questionable.
vickytoria77:
I wasn't talking about entry requirements for different courses, I was talking about for the same course: ie, History at one uni where they ask for AAA and another where they ask for DDD. Again, there is obviously a link between which uni you do a particular degree at and the quality of the students on that course. Not all people are born equal, and it seems idiotic to pretend that they are - again, just how are they supposed to have transformed so majestically between A levels and degree? I agree it can happen in some cases, but certainly not the majority.
Of course the amount of work you put in is important, I don't see how this relates to the question?
This is true. However, a lot of what you have said is questionable.
While anecdotal evidence may be a personal instance and you may choose to disregard it, your statement is also a personal opinion and I take it with a similar amount of eye rolling (if you'd actually made a decent point I wouldn't have however).
It's pretty easy to spot a thickie, despite what political correctness may tell you... In this case, a lack of intelligence in conversation and a btach of dodgy A level grades to back up the fact they aren't overly academic, = they're not the sharpest tools. My friend, who does come across intelligently in conversation and has a batch of good A levels struggles at uni, possibly because she is competing against a group of people who are also of high intelligence and someone has to slip through the net.
How you can think that students with AAA at A level are the same as students with DDE is beyond me. Fine, A levels aren't the best way to judge intelligence, and they don't suit everyone. There may be specific circumstances as to why someone did particularly badly, but other than a few exceptions, how can you say that somehow all of these DDE students are suddenly capable of great things at uni? Is there some mass epiphany which transforms mediocrity into something more? If they were suited to academic study they would (for the most part) have done well at school. There really isn't that much difference between school and university. Just how are you suggesting they have managed to become a 'far better student by the time they reach uni'?? I suggest a lot of what you say is questionable.
vickytoria77:
Entry requirements are not just based on the acedemic standard of the degree course. It's about supply and demand and the popularity of that course. For instance - you could take a Sports degree which to the old school people will see far easier than say a Maths or History degree but yet, because so many people are wanting to do it - entry requirements are now three A grades. Look at the entry requirements for a science based degree - a B and 2 C grades in some places; why? because no-one's interested in doing the sciences
I wasn't talking about entry requirements for different courses, I was talking about for the same course: ie, History at one uni where they ask for AAA and another where they ask for DDD. Again, there is obviously a link between which uni you do a particular degree at and the quality of the students on that course. Not all people are born equal, and it seems idiotic to pretend that they are - again, just how are they supposed to have transformed so majestically between A levels and degree? I agree it can happen in some cases, but certainly not the majority.
University work is also about the individual: you could have someone with 3 C grades who graduates with a 2:1due to their sheer determination and effort. Where as you could have a straight A or B student who doesn't work nearly as hard and comes out with a 2:2
Of course the amount of work you put in is important, I don't see how this relates to the question?
Reply 18
pjamesg
GRENWICK?.....wow and your at UCL?
grenwich u tw**.. the only thing you can find wrong with what i said was a typing error..
i can't believe this thread even started..whats wrong with people!....
and theres people here actually claiming that all degree's are or even should be the same!!
my word!
Reply 19
ChemistBoy
You know, you don't get a prize for how hard you work.
Apart from BA (Cantab)
Anyway, I get what you're saying; I'm not taking the whole "Look at poor little me I have to work hard" line, purely because I'm not doing the amount of work I should. What's expected and what I put in are different things, unfortunately. I also know that there's people at other unis who do work harder, for example medicine anywhere is pretty hardcore- yet not necessarily as hardcore as at Cam or Oxford in terms of workload.
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