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    -not been in the gym for a month or two
    -started last week doing quite high volume (250+ reps in sesh)
    -push on Monday, pull on Tuesday, Legs on Wednesday
    -DOMs is unreal e.g. can't extend arms fully without wimpering.
    -I know DOMS is a function of frequency i.e. once I get back into training regularly/frequently is will get better
    -can't train because pain and so weak. Tried a pull up today and can't even do 1.

    How do I get back to the stage where I don't have crippling DOMS when I train, given that my crippling DOMs stops me from training?
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    (Original post by Implication)
    -not been in the gym for a month or two
    -started last week doing quite high volume (250+ reps in sesh)
    -push on Monday, pull on Tuesday, Legs on Wednesday
    -DOMs is unreal e.g. can't extend arms fully without wimpering.
    -I know DOMS is a function of frequency i.e. once I get back into training regularly/frequently is will get better
    -can't train because pain and so weak. Tried a pull up today and can't even do 1.

    How do I get back to the stage where I don't have crippling DOMS when I train, given that my crippling DOMs stops me from training?
    By not being stupid by doing 250+ reps in a session for several days in a row.
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    DOMS is a killer I had that after months after training, the only solution is to wait it out in afraid and also decrease your rep range
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    (Original post by Smack)
    By not being stupid by doing 250+ reps in a session for several days in a row.
    ~40 reps on 4-5 exercises then a bunch of ab work. I don't think it's that crazy or 'stupid'... plenty of other people do that much or far more without ridiculous DOMS every time.

    Stupid to jump right in when I've had a load of time out of the gym? For sure. But not much I can do about that now and I don't think the routine itself is the problem.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    ~40 reps on 4-5 exercises then a bunch of ab work. I don't think it's that crazy or 'stupid'... plenty of other people do that much or far more without ridiculous DOMS every time.

    Stupid to jump right in when I've had a load of time out of the gym? For sure. But not much I can do about that now and I don't think the routine itself is the problem.
    Your programming is stupid whether you like it or not. If you were training a fresh trainee you wouldn't start them off with moderate intensity 4x10 in 5 exercises, day after day, would you? I'd also question the validity of requiring such volume as a natty trainee, are you not even varying your rep ranges based on ROM or TUT? Why are you back to backing push/pull? If you must train three days in a row AT LEAST put pull/legs/push.

    Is this a routine you've made up? What's your programming?

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    I disagree with Rollerball. Whilst doing so many rep/ sets is fine if you're doing well when you've been training or back in training a while. Doing that much volume was never going to end well first session back. I know, i've been there, I've been unable to walk for a week.

    Take today off. Drag yourself to the gym tomorrow, squat, bench, row/ whatever. Then leave, keep the % reasonably low and you'll be fine. Be in and out in less than 40 mins. Do some yoga and foam roll today, tomorrow morning and after your session. Do the same for your session after tomorrow, then you can increase volume.

    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Your programming is stupid whether you like it or not. If you were training a fresh trainee you wouldn't start them off with moderate intensity 4x10 in 5 exercises, day after day, would you? I'd also question the validity of requiring such volume as a natty trainee, are you not even varying your rep ranges based on ROM or TUT? Why are you back to backing push/pull? If you must train three days in a row AT LEAST put pull/legs/push.

    Is this a routine you've made up? What's your programming?

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    He is. He has a blog that documents it.
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    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Your programming is stupid whether you like it or not.
    What's stupid about it?

    If you were training a fresh trainee you wouldn't start them off with moderate intensity 4x10 in 5 exercises, day after day, would you?
    (a) it's not 5x10
    (b) it's not the same exercises each day
    (c) i didn't consider myself a fresh trainee
    (d) three days in a row isn't 'day after day'


    I'd also question the validity of requiring such volume as a natty trainee, are you not even varying your rep ranges based on ROM or TUT?
    I don't know if the such volume is 'required', but I've tried other types of programming and not made a whole lot of progress. I'm varying my reps from set to set.


    Why are you back to backing push/pull? If you must train three days in a row AT LEAST put pull/legs/push.
    Lots of people pull right after push do or chest and tris followed by back and bis. I don't think it will be a major problem. Doing pull/legs/push doesn't really help unless you assume I'm always going to have a rest day after the three, which I might not (either because I don't feel I need the rest or because I took a rest between other days). I'd just end up doing push then pull.


    Is this a routine you've made up? What's your programming?
    No, it's based on a sticky from bb.com. ~40 reps each of a handful of exercises, rest period up to me, rest days when needed and periodic deloading.

    Why so rude?

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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    I disagree with Rollerball. Whilst doing so many rep/ sets is fine if you're doing well when you've been training or back in training a while. Doing that much volume was never going to end well first session back. I know, i've been there, I've been unable to walk for a week.

    Take today off. Drag yourself to the gym tomorrow, squat, bench, row/ whatever. Then leave, keep the % reasonably low and you'll be fine. Be in and out in less than 40 mins. Do some yoga and foam roll today, tomorrow morning and after your session. Do the same for your session after tomorrow, then you can increase volume.



    He is. He has a blog that documents it.
    That's my point. You can't programme like that, when I refer to programming I'm talking about progression. Routine is exercise selection and order. For example, Stronglifts 5x5 is the routine, starting with 50% 1RM or bar and LP is programming.

    Flying in with 250 reps on back to back upper body days and is surprised when he can hardly move? That's like 500 reps in less than 36 hours after being out of training.

    You're asking for missed sessions. Who was recovery?

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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    Take today off. Drag yourself to the gym tomorrow, squat, bench, row/ whatever. Then leave, keep the % reasonably low and you'll be fine. Be in and out in less than 40 mins. Do some yoga and foam roll today, tomorrow morning and after your session. Do the same for your session after tomorrow, then you can increase volume.
    You reckon full body tomorrow? Or just jump back in on push and drop the volume and intensity? Been doing a bunch of dynamic stretching, helps a lot short term so I'll keep it up

    (Original post by RollerBall)
    That's my point. You can't programme like that
    Like what?


    when I refer to programming I'm talking about progression. Routine is exercise selection and order. For example, Stronglifts 5x5 is the routine, starting with 50% 1RM or bar and LP is programming.
    I really don't understand why you're assuming anything about my programming/progression given that I gave away virtually nothing about it on my first post :confused:

    I will add weight when I hit a certain number of reps on first set, then take as many sets as I need to hit the total number of reps I want.

    Flying in with 250 reps on back to back upper body days and is surprised when he can hardly move?
    Indeed. Strangely I'm pretty sure the deadlifts were the killer as it's my forearms that are the main problem and I wasn't too bad after push and pull. I only did 27 total reps in 3 sets @ 100kg though.


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    (Original post by Implication)
    You reckon full body tomorrow? Or just jump back in on push and drop the volume and intensity? Been doing a bunch of dynamic stretching, helps a lot short term so I'll keep it up



    Like what?




    I really don't understand why you're assuming anything about my programming/progression given that I gave away virtually nothing about it on my first post :confused:

    I will add weight when I hit a certain number of reps on first set, then take as many sets as I need to hit the total number of reps I want.



    Indeed. Strangely I'm pretty sure the deadlifts were the killer as it's my forearms that are the main problem and I wasn't too bad after push and pull. I only did 27 total reps in 3 sets @ 100kg though.


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    Programming starts with the first session. If you go HAM in your first week and then have to miss days out of your routine because of crippling DOMS, you've messed up your programming.

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    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Programming starts with the first session. If you go HAM in your first week and then have to miss days out of your routine because of crippling DOMS, you've messed up your programming.
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    Ah right yep, following. Yeah it was dumb, but the question now is what do I do! I'm happy to discuss my routine and programming in general but really the reason I started this thread is to know how to get to the stage where I can train hard without getting DOMS that will stop me training. I mean, if I just go back in next week and do the routine exactly as planned I'm sure I'll still be sore but I might be capable of training. Or I might not. So is the best thing to do just suck it up and carry on, or cut down on the volume and gradually build back up? I don't know, and that's what I'd like to try and work out!

    It might sound slightly backwards, but part of the reason I trained three days in a row was to try and prevent DOMS long-term as I know it's mostly a function of frequency. Training full body 3x per week I rarely got DOMS after the first few weeks, but obviously doing p/pl if I only do each session once per week (e.g. AxBxCxx) the frequency may be such that I never stop getting DOMS. If I do something like ABCABCx, ABCxABCx or AxBCx the frequency is gonna be up there and that should help. That was my thinking anyway.
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    Yeah get back on it, it's going to suck but you need to stretch everything out, clear your DOMS and get your body used to training again.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Ah right yep, following. Yeah it was dumb, but the question now is what do I do! I'm happy to discuss my routine and programming in general but really the reason I started this thread is to know how to get to the stage where I can train hard without getting DOMS that will stop me training. I mean, if I just go back in next week and do the routine exactly as planned I'm sure I'll still be sore but I might be capable of training. Or I might not. So is the best thing to do just suck it up and carry on, or cut down on the volume and gradually build back up? I don't know, and that's what I'd like to try and work out!

    It might sound slightly backwards, but part of the reason I trained three days in a row was to try and prevent DOMS long-term as I know it's mostly a function of frequency. Training full body 3x per week I rarely got DOMS after the first few weeks, but obviously doing p/pl if I only do each session once per week (e.g. AxBxCxx) the frequency may be such that I never stop getting DOMS. If I do something like ABCABCx, ABCxABCx or AxBCx the frequency is gonna be up there and that should help. That was my thinking anyway.
    The only thing that has any evidence to reduce DOMS is cold temperatures post workout (easiest thing is a cold shower, ain't nobody got time for ice baths). Oh, and reducing eccentric loading but who's going to do that when training.

    Personally I'd reduce and ramp. I've done vertical/horizontal/legs for a bit when I've had a naff gym and DOMS went away to be very minor to non-existent after the first week or two. Did 3x6-8/8-10/10-12 dependent on exercises then added an extra set in the second or third week to get a decent amount of total volume.

    Edit: Forgot to mention I did H/L/V/rest/H/L/V/rest ad infinum for about 6 weeks. I think I had a handful of rest days thrown in extra too just because life meant I couldn't train all the time.

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    Thanks gents, trained yesterday with slightly reduced volume and have DOMS today but not major

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