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    Hello everyone!

    I've posted here before, but a few days ago something happened that sort of made my entire world collapse, so here goes anyway.

    I live in Belgium, an EU country, completed a Ba in Applied Linguistics this February and would love to study more English. We study nearly free of charge here and cannot pay tuition fees ourselves. The plan was to study English Language in Manchester (another Ba) this year: no overlap with my previous course and ten times m ore interesting than any Ma. I got an unconditional offer in April and set up a crowdfunding campaign because SFE wouldn't grant me a loan. Didn't really work out, but then things changed. My government needed more time to decide whether I could take my disability allowance with me to England (I'm blind), so I decided to put Manchester on hold for a year and will be doing the Ma in Translation this year. If I pass all the modules (already did half of them last year) I can try and apply for a private loan and grant in Belgium that could cover half (ore more) of the £27,000 pounds. Manchester was happy to defer my offer to 2016.

    A few days ago, however, I was e-mailing back and forth with someone from Manchester who suddenly broke some very good news tome: as a second-degree EU student, I would suddenly have to pay inernational fees instead of home/EU fees, meaning £15,500 a year instead of £9,000. Unfortunately, Harry Potter or Kate Middleton don't often come over for dinner, so I can't possibly pay this amount. Even if I could get a loan or grant here, it wouldn't even cover half of the fees.

    Has anyone here ever heard of this totally illogical rule before? I've been preparing my move abroad for two years, but never read anything about this! The capital of Belgium is still Brussels and I'm quite sure the entire UK knows Brussels is part of the EU. Why on earth does a degree make a difference, a degree the UK government didn't invest a single penny in, for that matter? Is this yet another Conservative trick to keep international people out of England? And even if I did have the money or a grant (which just doesn't exist), who would be willing to invest £46,500 in a degree? Isn't that what you could save for a small flat?

    Pardon my bitterness, but I really couldn't wait to study in Manchester.

    Best wishes, Vincent
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    Hello everyone!

    I've posted here before, but a few days ago something happened that sort of made my entire world collapse, so here goes anyway.

    I live in Belgium, an EU country, completed a Ba in Applied Linguistics this February and would love to study more English. We study nearly free of charge here and cannot pay tuition fees ourselves. The plan was to study English Language in Manchester (another Ba) this year: no overlap with my previous course and ten times m ore interesting than any Ma. I got an unconditional offer in April and set up a crowdfunding campaign because SFE wouldn't grant me a loan. Didn't really work out, but then things changed. My government needed more time to decide whether I could take my disability allowance with me to England (I'm blind), so I decided to put Manchester on hold for a year and will be doing the Ma in Translation this year. If I pass all the modules (already did half of them last year) I can try and apply for a private loan and grant in Belgium that could cover half (ore more) of the £27,000 pounds. Manchester was happy to defer my offer to 2016.

    A few days ago, however, I was e-mailing back and forth with someone from Manchester who suddenly broke some very good news tome: as a second-degree EU student, I would suddenly have to pay inernational fees instead of home/EU fees, meaning £15,500 a year instead of £9,000. Unfortunately, Harry Potter or Kate Middleton don't often come over for dinner, so I can't possibly pay this amount. Even if I could get a loan or grant here, it wouldn't even cover half of the fees.

    Has anyone here ever heard of this totally illogical rule before? I've been preparing my move abroad for two years, but never read anything about this! The capital of Belgium is still Brussels and I'm quite sure the entire UK knows Brussels is part of the EU. Why on earth does a degree make a difference, a degree the UK government didn't invest a single penny in, for that matter? Is this yet another Conservative trick to keep international people out of England? And even if I did have the money or a grant (which just doesn't exist), who would be willing to invest £46,500 in a degree? Isn't that what you could save for a small flat?

    Pardon my bitterness, but I really couldn't wait to study in Manchester.

    Best wishes, Vincent
    This matches the same for uk students. Why should the uk government subsidise your second degree??
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    They shouldn't, but the £6,000 increase is really shocking. I'm very, very happy to look for funding myself, but why do they punish me for having studied in another country? Do they expect 18-year-olds who don't know what univerisity is like to move abroad for their first degree? It's already a big new experience, who would do it away from friends and family for the first time? Isn't it safer to attract international students who have already studied?
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    They shouldn't, but the £6,000 increase is really shocking. I'm very, very happy to look for funding myself, but why do they punish me for having studied in another country? Do they expect 18-year-olds who don't know what univerisity is like to move abroad for their first degree? It's already a big new experience, who would do it away from friends and family for the first time? Isn't it safer to attract international students who have already studied?

    Do you not understand. EVERYONE who has already studied a degree is not entitled to any further funding.

    At the end of the day there is nothing you can do
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    I understand that there is no funding, but I don't get the increase. If you study your first egree, it only costs you 9,000 a year, doesn't it? Why do the fees go up for another degree and why is it so hard to find this particular rule on the INternet? Of course I understand that I can't take out a normal student loan, but why does that automatically mean it would cost me £18,000 more?
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    I understand that there is no funding, but I don't get the increase. If you study your first egree, it only costs you 9,000 a year, doesn't it? Why do the fees go up for another degree and why is it so hard to find this particular rule on the INternet? Of course I understand that I can't take out a normal student loan, but why does that automatically mean it would cost me £18,000 more?
    OK, I have been doing some research into this for you.

    In 2007, the Labour government introduced the Equivalent or Lower Qualifications policy, meaning that if you want to study a qualification that is the equivalent or lower you are not entitled to funding.

    The universities then started to charge Home/EU students who wanted second degrees a higher rate, the cost would vary depending on the university. Manchester decided to charge the international rate. However, that was for students pre 2012 and the tuition increase for all home/EU students. On the Manchester University it states that all ELQ students will be charged the standard £9,000 and be treated as if they are first time undergraduates who are not entitled to funding.

    Unless there is something that you are not telling us or maybe Manchester has some more info it’s hard to say why you would be asked to pay more.

    http://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/un.../2015/uk/fees/

    http://documents.manchester.ac.uk/di...spx?DocID=4415
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    I understand that there is no funding, but I don't get the increase. If you study your first egree, it only costs you 9,000 a year, doesn't it? Why do the fees go up for another degree and why is it so hard to find this particular rule on the INternet? Of course I understand that I can't take out a normal student loan, but why does that automatically mean it would cost me £18,000 more?
    Maybe you have been misinformed, you need to contact Manchester university and ask them. From what I found, you shouldn't be charge as international student.
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    It depends on the university whether they want to ask for higher fees due to ELQ or not. I think UCL would charge you only the regular fees (not sure but I think I read something like that on their website). Maybe other universities would, as well.
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    Thank you very much for that. I'm definitely telling you everything. It seems so strange to me that they would charge a fee they know no one will ever be able to pay. On the one hand, they welcome international students, but on the other, there is not a single scholarship/loan/grant that would suffice in my case. What's more, studying abroad is actually being encouraged here, which makes it even worse to drop the whole plan.
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    If you study your first egree, it only costs you 9,000 a year, doesn't it?
    Yes but this is a subsidised rate. My understanding is the true cost is the international student fee (or thereabouts). EU & UK students are only entitled to one subsidised undergraduate degree and have to pay the full cost for a second undergraduate qualification.

    It is a double whammy - no funding and full costs.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yes but this is a subsidised rate. My understanding is the true cost is the international student fee (or thereabouts). EU & UK students are only entitled to one subsidised undergraduate degree and have to pay the full cost for a second undergraduate qualification.

    It is a double whammy - no funding and full costs.
    That's what I've been trying to say. 9k is still a subsidised rate, which the gov pays
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    Hello everyone!

    I've posted here before, but a few days ago something happened that sort of made my entire world collapse, so here goes anyway.

    I live in Belgium, an EU country, completed a Ba in Applied Linguistics this February and would love to study more English. We study nearly free of charge here and cannot pay tuition fees ourselves. The plan was to study English Language in Manchester (another Ba) this year: no overlap with my previous course and ten times m ore interesting than any Ma. I got an unconditional offer in April and set up a crowdfunding campaign because SFE wouldn't grant me a loan. Didn't really work out, but then things changed. My government needed more time to decide whether I could take my disability allowance with me to England (I'm blind), so I decided to put Manchester on hold for a year and will be doing the Ma in Translation this year. If I pass all the modules (already did half of them last year) I can try and apply for a private loan and grant in Belgium that could cover half (ore more) of the £27,000 pounds. Manchester was happy to defer my offer to 2016.

    A few days ago, however, I was e-mailing back and forth with someone from Manchester who suddenly broke some very good news tome: as a second-degree EU student, I would suddenly have to pay inernational fees instead of home/EU fees, meaning £15,500 a year instead of £9,000. Unfortunately, Harry Potter or Kate Middleton don't often come over for dinner, so I can't possibly pay this amount. Even if I could get a loan or grant here, it wouldn't even cover half of the fees.

    Has anyone here ever heard of this totally illogical rule before? I've been preparing my move abroad for two years, but never read anything about this! The capital of Belgium is still Brussels and I'm quite sure the entire UK knows Brussels is part of the EU. Why on earth does a degree make a difference, a degree the UK government didn't invest a single penny in, for that matter? Is this yet another Conservative trick to keep international people out of England? And even if I did have the money or a grant (which just doesn't exist), who would be willing to invest £46,500 in a degree? Isn't that what you could save for a small flat?

    Pardon my bitterness, but I really couldn't wait to study in Manchester.

    Best wishes, Vincent
    You complain a lot. It is not a joke. The home/eu fee is a reduction of the real fee (which is the international fee). Since you have studied a degree already, you are not entitled to that government-supported reduction. Especially when there are other students who need the reduction and have not done a degree yet. Do not be selfish.

    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    They shouldn't, but the £6,000 increase is really shocking. I'm very, very happy to look for funding myself, but why do they punish me for having studied in another country? Do they expect 18-year-olds who don't know what univerisity is like to move abroad for their first degree? It's already a big new experience, who would do it away from friends and family for the first time? Isn't it safer to attract international students who have already studied?
    They are not punishing you. There is only so much money and they need to prioritise. Those with no degrees come first than those with degrees. Do not be selfish.


    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    I understand that there is no funding, but I don't get the increase. If you study your first egree, it only costs you 9,000 a year, doesn't it? Why do the fees go up for another degree and why is it so hard to find this particular rule on the INternet? Of course I understand that I can't take out a normal student loan, but why does that automatically mean it would cost me £18,000 more?
    Nope. The 9K is a government-reduced fee for those going to uni for the first time. The international fee is the actual fee with no reductions. That's what you will pay. If you pay nothing in Belgium, why would come here anyway? Paying nothing > Paying 9K (with or without loan).
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    Jesus Christ...
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    (Original post by VincentFernandes)
    Jesus Christ...
    He'd be liable for the full international fee, even for his first undergraduate degree.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    He'd be liable for the full international fee, even for his first undergraduate degree.
    I Heard he didn't even go to a russel group.
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    (Original post by tim_123)
    That's what I've been trying to say. 9k is still a subsidised rate, which the gov pays
    Its complicated and depends on a number of factors including the university and the course, but according to this source (figure 5.13) the average spend of UK universities on undergraduates per year is in the region of £9-10,000. Given that the course in question is a non-science course, I suspect the cost of the course is less than £9,000, not more. Internationals are used to make a profit and always have been.
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    You seem to keep missing what most people here are telling you again and again: The increased fee for doing a second BA has nothing to do with whether or not you are from the EU. Even UK students who want to do a second BA are subject to the same increased rates as you - and that's wherever they did their first BA, in the UK or Europe. This is not some kind of foreigners persecution scenario, it is just that the UK does not subsidise a second undegraduate degree, not even for UK nationals.

    Maybe you need to reconsider your options and do an MA in Manchester instead of a BA. The increased fee rule does not apply to MA degrees as those are not subsidised in the same way as the BA degrees.
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    FOR THE 100TH TIME:

    NOBODY IN THE UK GETS A SUBSIDISED SECOND UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE. NOBODY. NOT YOU, NOT A UK NATIONAL, NOT A VIETNAMESE NATIONAL. NOBODY.

    Do a masters. I dont know why you want to do a second undergrad degree??
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    I understand second degrees aren't subsidised for UK students either, but if their website says second undergraduates do not cost more, this bit of news doesn't make any sense.

    As for the second Ba, beaause this Ba has loads and loads of modules I would really love to study, modules I can't do in any Ma because those Mas all build on Ba modules I never had.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    He'd be liable for the full international fee, even for his first undergraduate degree.
 
 
 

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