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2300 people die within two weeks of being declared fit to work watch

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557

    I look forward to seeing the tory spin on this. You hark on and on about people who are too lazy to work and reliant on benefits so you strip people of their benefits who are actually dying.

    IDS and the DWP have regularly overruled doctors who've declared people unfit to work and just look at the results.

    -2380 died within two weeks of being declared fit to work and having their benefits stripped
    -1340 of these died after appealing the decisions
    -2,017,070 people were given a decision following their WCA between May 2010 and February 2013, with 40,680 dying within a year of that decision.

    Imagine if this was Labour, but of course the press will focus more on who Corbyn had lunch with then thousands of dying people having their benefits taken away.

    And before anyone harks on about this being a lefty conspiracy, the figures are in the public domain, all available on the DWP website.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557

    I look forward to seeing the tory spin on this. You hark on and on about people who are too lazy to work and reliant on benefits so you strip people of their benefits who are actually dying.

    IDS and the DWP have regularly overruled doctors who've declared people unfit to work and just look at the results.

    -2380 died within two weeks of being declared fit to work and having their benefits stripped
    -1340 of these died after appealing the decisions
    -2,017,070 people were given a decision following their WCA between May 2010 and February 2013, with 40,680 dying within a year of that decision.

    Imagine if this was Labour, but of course the press will focus more on who Corbyn had lunch with then thousands of dying people having their benefits taken away.

    And before anyone harks on about this being a lefty conspiracy, the figures are in the public domain, all available on the DWP website.
    Tragic, yes. Welfare needs to be reformed, but not like this. I am quite wary of the left using this as an opportunity not just to rightly criticise the Conservatives but to further their own socialist arguments.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Tragic, yes. Welfare needs to be reformed, but not like this. I am quite wary of the left using this as an opportunity not just to rightly criticise the Conservatives but to further their own socialist arguments.
    Nothing to do with socialism.
    The Tories have gone on about lazy people reliant on benefits. Seems many of these 'lazy ' people have been dying.

    How can anyone at all defend a policy which has resulted in dying people having their benefits taken away?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Nothing to do with socialism.
    The Tories have gone on about lazy people reliant on benefits. Seems many of these 'lazy ' people have been dying.

    How can anyone at all defend a policy which has resulted in dying people having their benefits taken away?
    Yes, and those lazy people reliant on benefits do exist. Without a doubt. And I won't defend that. I merely say that benefits must be reformed. I profoundly disagree with how the Tories have gone about doing it.

    The so-called 'bedroom tax' (it should tell you something about the entitlement culture in this country when people view a reduction in benefits as a tax) for instance. It's a brilliant idea to optimise space in theory. But as there are not enough smaller council houses for people to move into, it has the terrible consequences that then allows the leftists to emerge from the undergrowth and argue that any welfare reform at all is evil/unnecessary. That's what I meant when I said the left will no doubt further their own arguments with this.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Nothing to do with socialism.
    The Tories have gone on about lazy people reliant on benefits. Seems many of these 'lazy ' people have been dying.

    How can anyone at all defend a policy which has resulted in dying people having their benefits taken away?
    What did they die of?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What did they die of?
    Various things, it's not relevant - the fact is these people who knew they were ill were declared fit to work by this government and had their benefits stripped. Within two weeks they were dead.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Various things, it's not relevant - the fact is these people who knew they were ill were declared fit to work by this government and had their benefits stripped. Within two weeks they were dead.
    What they died of the very relevant. If it was suicide it would be a completely different situation to if they died from their illness.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Yes, and those lazy people reliant on benefits do exist. Without a doubt. And I won't defend that. I merely say that benefits must be reformed. I profoundly disagree with how the Tories have gone about doing it.

    The so-called 'bedroom tax' (it should tell you something about the entitlement culture in this country when people view a reduction in benefits as a tax) for instance. It's a brilliant idea to optimise space in theory. But as there are not enough smaller council houses for people to move into, it has the terrible consequences that then allows the leftists to emerge from the undergrowth and argue that any welfare reform at all is evil/unnecessary. That's what I meant when I said the left will no doubt further their own arguments with this.
    Yes some exist - incredibly few and lots of these people labelled as lazy by those on the right have been within weeks of death...

    No, I can see in principal to the bedroom tax , but in reality as you say it has resulted in thousands being chucked out their homes and having no where to move into because the stock simply doesn't exist. Why doesn't that stock exist? Because the tories sold off all the council houses and both New Labour and the Tories simply didn't replace them.

    Of course i'll further my own arguments against the tories when their policies have seen dying people declared fit to work and stripped of their benefits.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What they died of the very relevant. If it was suicide it would be a completely different situation to if they died from a their illness.
    Well, some may be suicide, the majority almost certainly not. Many of whom were actually declared not fit to work by doctors- yet the CWA and DWP under the leadership of IDS overuled them.

    And even if it was suicide, we must surely question and berate a policy which has seen mass suicides.

    Defending this really is trying to defend the indefensible.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Well, some may be suicide, the majority almost certainly not. Many of whom were actually declared not fit to work by doctors- yet the CWA and DWP under the leadership of IDS overuled them.

    And even if it was suicide, we must surely question and berate a policy which has seen mass suicides.

    Defending this really is trying to defend the indefensible.
    The majority? Have you got a source for that?

    This is why we need more data before jumping to conclusions.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    The majority? Have you got a source for that?

    This is why we need more data before jumping to conclusions.
    So you think this is all a coincidence? That 2380 people just dropped dead displaying no signs of illness. How common is that?

    Even if they were suicide, you'd have to question a government policy which has seen thousands commit suicide.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So you think this is all a coincidence? That 2380 people just dropped dead displaying no signs of illness. How common is that?

    Even if they were suicide, you'd have to question a government policy which has seen thousands commit suicide.
    Without more data we cannot just jump to conclusions. More time needs to be spent on this topic before an informed opinion can be made.

    Thousands commit suicide anyway thanks to the underfunded and frankly useless health services, but that is a topic for another day. It may be that the daunting task of finding work having been out of it for so long was too much to bear without support. But we don't know, that is the whole point.

    WE NEED MORE DATA!
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    Just because they died doesn't mean they couldn't have held down a job beforehand.

    They were merely tested to see whether they could walk etc not whether they were in imminent danger of a heart attack or stroke!

    Only if their deaths were directly related to the medical condition they were claiming for would this be a scandal.

    Many people die before they retire.

    That's life.

    Now I daresay I may cop some flack for this post. So let me ask how many deaths would be acceptable?

    There has to be some because many deaths cannot be predicted and because of the large numbers being tested.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What did they die of?
    This is a rehash of poor statistics from last year.

    The number is 2300 people died and then had their disability benefits stopped......because they died.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yes some exist - incredibly few and lots of these people labelled as lazy by those on the right have been within weeks of death...

    No, I can see in principal to the bedroom tax , but in reality as you say it has resulted in thousands being chucked out their homes and having no where to move into because the stock simply doesn't exist. Why doesn't that stock exist? Because the tories sold off all the council houses and both New Labour and the Tories simply didn't replace them.

    Of course i'll further my own arguments against the tories when their policies have seen dying people declared fit to work and stripped of their benefits.
    Just be careful not to do the typical Green Party thing and start going on about how any welfare cuts at all are evil/unnecessary.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    This is a rehash of poor statistics from last year.

    The number is 2300 people died and then had their disability benefits stopped......because they died.
    No they didn't. These are new statistics published by the DWP today. Why not try reading the article. They were declared fit to work, had their benefits stopped and within two weeks they died. The DWP itself does not dispute this.
    The figures were realsed after a ruling by the information commisoner in April 2015
    https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve...s_50557638.pdf

    Typical that you haven't actually read the article yet are jumping in to support the tories.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Without more data we cannot just jump to conclusions. More time needs to be spent on this topic before an informed opinion can be made.

    Thousands commit suicide anyway thanks to the underfunded and frankly useless health services, but that is a topic for another day. It may be that the daunting task of finding work having been out of it for so long was too much to bear without support. But we don't know, that is the whole point.

    WE NEED MORE DATA!
    Well, unless every single one of them happened to die completley out the blue having shown no signs of illness then it means people who were dying were declared fit to work by our government and had their benefits taken from them.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Well, unless every single one of them happened to die completley out the blue having shown no signs of illness then it means people who were dying were declared fit to work by our government and had their benefits taken from them.
    I think that suicide could be very prevalent in this section of society. They may well have been fit to work, but not felt it themselves. We need to find out if it was their illness that killed them or something else.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Nothing to do with socialism.
    The Tories have gone on about lazy people reliant on benefits. Seems many of these 'lazy ' people have been dying.

    How can anyone at all defend a policy which has resulted in dying people having their benefits taken away?
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557

    I look forward to seeing the tory spin on this. You hark on and on about people who are too lazy to work and reliant on benefits so you strip people of their benefits who are actually dying.

    IDS and the DWP have regularly overruled doctors who've declared people unfit to work and just look at the results.

    -2380 died within two weeks of being declared fit to work and having their benefits stripped
    -1340 of these died after appealing the decisions
    -2,017,070 people were given a decision following their WCA between May 2010 and February 2013, with 40,680 dying within a year of that decision.

    Imagine if this was Labour, but of course the press will focus more on who Corbyn had lunch with then thousands of dying people having their benefits taken away.

    And before anyone harks on about this being a lefty conspiracy, the figures are in the public domain, all available on the DWP website.
    The BBC is under-reporting this hard with its cherry-picking of statistics. Look at the headline for starters: it's a lie: 50,000 died after an "assessment", 2,300 after a *fit for work decision*.

    There is another far more shocking statistic. Deaths after mandation to the WRAG.

    The WRAG is now paid at the same level as JSA and you are not judged fit for work but fit for work related activity.

    This includes anything from CV workshops to unpaid workfare.

    Deaths among those who are mandated to the WRAG are a further 7,200 over the period.

    (Note also anyone looking into this that the period is Dec 11 to I believe Feb 14, so it's three years not four.)
 
 
 
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