How far will Western living standards fall? (US, UK)

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Bill_Gates
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How far will Western living standards fall? (US, UK)

Thanks to the rise of Asia and the endless printing of money.

How far will living standards fall here?

Household incomes in the US/UK are already on the decline for the middle. Pay has been steadily going down for 17 years! Oh alongside the reduction in welfare which has been called upon by the "masses" and dwindling public infrastructure due to reckless spending.
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username1494226
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Only solution is to get out while you can I think, I know I certainly will try.
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by marco14196)
Only solution is to get out while you can I think, I know I certainly will try.
Personally i have covered my positions i have a "get out" plan. But i'd like to awaken the masses to what's about to go down.

Where are you thinking of going btw?
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username1494226
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Personally i have covered my positions i have a "get out" plan. But i'd like to awaken the masses to what's about to go down.

Where are you thinking of going btw?
I've looked at Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Finland and Canada so far.
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judogainz
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Denmark for me
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by marco14196)
I've looked at Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Finland and Canada so far.
Great countries! very wealthy!
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by judogainz)
Denmark for me
Why Denmark in particular?
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Rakas21
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There's no real reason why they should. The fact that they have is due to government incompetence and a blind love of the rich rather than the rise of Asia.
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by Rakas21)
There's no real reason why they should. The fact that they have is due to government incompetence and a blind love of the rich rather than the rise of Asia.
lol erm on what grounds sorry? i think its GENERALLY accepted they are falling.

Wages down over 17 years
Unemployment up - less secure employment
Exports and GDP growth are nowhere near Asian countries
Welfare state reduced, public services declining

UK is turning into a cesspit.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
lol erm on what grounds sorry? i think its GENERALLY accepted they are falling.

Wages down over 17 years
Unemployment up - less secure employment
Exports and GDP growth are nowhere near Asian countries
Welfare state reduced, public services declining

UK is turning into a cesspit.
They are falling now, yes.

Wages were rising until 2008 in real terms, its the US where they stalled since the 70's.

To be expected but we lost heavy engineering and pound shop manufacturing decades ago. The rise of Asia won't really impact that further.

Unemployment is less secure today but its historically low considering falling public sector unemployment.

The fault of government.

..

None of what you said is something which must happen, its the result of poor governance.
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by Rakas21)
They are falling now, yes.

Wages were rising until 2008 in real terms, its the US where they stalled since the 70's.

To be expected but we lost heavy engineering and pound shop manufacturing decades ago. The rise of Asia won't really impact that further.

Unemployment is less secure today but its historically low considering falling public sector unemployment.

The fault of government.

None of what you said is something which must happen, its the result of poor governance.
Thanks for stating the obvious and agreeing to my points. Of course it's about poor governance hence why living standards are falling.

I think the lower and middle class of the UK are in for a shock in terms of living standards, the rich will stay to exploit.
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KingNobleStone
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
lol erm on what grounds sorry? i think its GENERALLY accepted they are falling.

Wages down over 17 years
Unemployment up - less secure employment
Exports and GDP growth are nowhere near Asian countries
Welfare state reduced, public services declining

UK is turning into a cesspit.
comparing us to China is a bit dopey...on many levels. for one, UK average wages are comfortaby in the top 10 in the world. And China is an economy starting from the bottom, what else do you or others wit similar views expect? Name a region on EARTH with higher living standards than the West? Be happy there aren't many factories with may suicides, or a ****ty environment or blocked Youtube, or only being allowed to have one child. UK still has a world class living standards out of...well 200 or so recognised countries. If you seriously believe UK living standards equate to China, than I dunno what else to say..
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KingNobleStone
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Great countries! very wealthy!
no more so than we are......don't base your views on media stereotypes.
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Roofas
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If you had even the slightest understanding of this issue then you would know that living standards do not just inherently rise or fall. There is no rule or factual basis to claim that living standards have to drop anywhere in the world just because the economies of Asia are expanding. We have not yet reached the stage where there is a finite amount of wealth that countries must vie for; and why would Britain be less able to attract wealth than Sweden or Denmark would be able to?

The British economy is growing and the population is growing; both with be the largest in Europe in a few short decades as Germany sheds 20 million people. The trick is balancing economic growth with population growth so that there is an overall increase in living standards while maintaining a stable population. Immigration is not the variable driving economic growth; yesterday's economic data showed that exports drove the recent Q2 expansion of 0.7% in the British economy.

It also depends how you measure 'living standards' Are you going to solely rely on economic data or include subjective cultural, social, religious aspects. You will always be an outsider in a foreign country, personally that would reduce my living standards and happiness significantly. You might work longer hours in certain Northern European nations and have less family time.

Why bother to even attempt to map the future living standards of the world when we are living in such volatile times. Will we reach the technological singularity by 2040? Will the oil run out within 30 years? Who will be able to deal with peak oil better; A non-nuclear Germany or nuclear power embracing UK - who knows? You can all move to these 'prosperous' countries if you want to. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

If you were Swedish/Danish/German or a Kiwi you'd be saying the exact same thing because of your socio-political views. If you are truly planning on emigrating, at least educate yourself instead of relying on semantic national stereotypes.
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Rorschach II
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slade p
TheCitizenAct
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Caius Filimon
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(Original post by Rakas21)
There's no real reason why they should. The fact that they have is due to government incompetence and a blind love of the rich rather than the rise of Asia.
Indeed, but let us take a look at history.

The US as a nation, economy and people had done very well while there was an immediate threat to the oligarchy in the US (namely, private corporations and the sort) which was the USSR. During the USSR's time, the US had prospered as the government really did have an actual incentive to keep its population happy in order for the rich to safeguard themselves from the 'scourge of Communism'. As soon as the direct threat of Communism started waning, the corporations seemed to simply not care anymore, and just abuse the consumers of the US. The government also seemed to have grown extremely half assed and unbothered with long-term stability (i.e.: imbecilic spending of printed money, as printed money can do wonders to an economy if managed well; the deregulation of the financial markets, bailing out businesses like mad, so on and so forth).

Now with the seeming decrease in infuence of the US dollar (one of the few things that's kept the US going with its immense budget and most importantly, trade deficits) as BRICS nations start contesting the scam that the US petrodollar is (the founding of the Asian Infrastructure Bank and the moving away from the dollar in trade between Russia, Iran and China, as well as other BRICS nations to a lesser degree).

Hopefully because the undisputed dominance of the US is clearly being contested nowadays, and with the US already losing the status as a 'world hegemon', the government will eventually mobilize and do well by its populace to keep the nation from either collapsing due to civil strife, or simply stagnating for decades. Even though, in all honesty, the US doesn't have many options as of now that doesn't require a stern and decissive government, something which is very unlikely to be seen because of they 'democracy'.

Oh and Cambridge has already called the US a plutocracy where only the top 30% have any say in how the country is run, while Princeton and a few other Ivy League universities called it an outright oligarchy considering the immense influence of corporations owned in the majority by a handful of people. Besides, the media is 80% owned by 5 corporations in the US.

So yeah, I sure as hell am moving to China. I love their culture, their love for long-term security and stability, respect for the elderly, respect for society and their government which, unlike the vast majority of world governments, actually wants its populace to do better and better. Africa is already turning from the West to China for trade as China wants everyone to do well economically, as that means China would do even better economically. The US only ever wanted to be the undisputed top dog in the world for as long as possible, while China only seems to want to do well economically, which as said before entails the rest of the world doing well. So yeah, let's hope that is so, and until then, I'll go study economics in China in a subsidiary of a British university ^^
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Caius Filimon
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(Original post by Dumachi)
For the USA nothing less the end to it as a superpower, it will cease to be the currency of the world and a Great Depression will en suit. This will probably trigger world war 3 in which case no one is safe.

The UK will collapse too and will forced by blackmail into the euro as " a solution".

The United States of Europe will be formed and it will become a great superpower.

There are my predictions.
I would think the US already started attempting some sort of 'world war'. Their initiation of a military coup in Ukraine, and the imposition of a fascist government (their chief of police is literally a world wide renown neo-Nazi, but we don't even hear that in our beloved Western media, do we) that tried banning the use of Russian in a country heavily populated by Russians, and people speaking Russian.

I would think that's because Russia has started trading with China and Iran in their own currencies, rather than the US petrodollar, which is again the only reason the US can survive economically and perhaps as a nation nowadays. Russia hasn't fallen for it though and are not initiating direct conflict, which is what the US would want in order to make other BRICS nations shy away from ditching the dollar.
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Caius Filimon
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(Original post by Roofas)
If you had even the slightest understanding of this issue then you would know that living standards do not just inherently rise or fall. There is no rule or factual basis to claim that living standards have to drop anywhere in the world just because the economies of Asia are expanding. We have not yet reached the stage where there is a finite amount of wealth that countries must vie for; and why would Britain be less able to attract wealth than Sweden or Denmark would be able to?

The British economy is growing and the population is growing; both with be the largest in Europe in a few short decades as Germany sheds 20 million people. The trick is balancing economic growth with population growth so that there is an overall increase in living standards while maintaining a stable population. Immigration is not the variable driving economic growth; yesterday's economic data showed that exports drove the recent Q2 expansion of 0.7% in the British economy.

It also depends how you measure 'living standards' Are you going to solely rely on economic data or include subjective cultural, social, religious aspects. You will always be an outsider in a foreign country, personally that would reduce my living standards and happiness significantly. You might work longer hours in certain Northern European nations and have less family time.

Why bother to even attempt to map the future living standards of the world when we are living in such volatile times. Will we reach the technological singularity by 2040? Will the oil run out within 30 years? Who will be able to deal with peak oil better; A non-nuclear Germany or nuclear power embracing UK - who knows? You can all move to these 'prosperous' countries if you want to. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

If you were Swedish/Danish/German or a Kiwi you'd be saying the exact same thing because of your socio-political views. If you are truly planning on emigrating, at least educate yourself instead of relying on semantic national stereotypes.
Indeed, if anything, the rise of the East would result in the West doing a bit better. Take a look at China possibly saving the world from a long world economic depression in 2008, and now suffering the consequences of that fiscal stimulus.

I agree that most people simply go by simple statistics or just hearsay when it comes to them moving to foreign countries, such as Denmark or Sweden, the Nordic utopias. There's quite a bit more to it than that though. In all honesty I'm just glad that there seems to be more and more disillusionment with many of these Western governments given the complete lack of interest these nations have in long-term stability; perhaps that will cause some change in the future, for the better, hopefully.
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Caius Filimon
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(Original post by Dumachi)
Well I hope they win, this is what there up against:

https://youtu.be/8b7Zc57Us44

Now you understand why Putin wants a strong Christian nation.
Ugh I'd rather base my opinions on logic and independent research coupled with cross-referencing, rather than have anything to do with religion
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cuppacoffee
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
How far will Western living standards fall? (US, UK)

Thanks to the rise of Asia and the endless printing of money.

How far will living standards fall here?

Household incomes in the US/UK are already on the decline for the middle. Pay has been steadily going down for 17 years! Oh alongside the reduction in welfare which has been called upon by the "masses" and dwindling public infrastructure due to reckless spending.
Well the gulf arab countries are already ahead of us- I.e. Qatar, UAE etc. same with japan and korea.
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