Why is it mainly the Left who support the EU?

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BenC1997
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It seems odd to me that the EU draws most of its support in Britain from the left. Many of the things the EU supports and causes should surely receive widespread condemnation from the left within Britain. For example, a centre-right Germany forcing extreme austerity on a leftist Greece, huge tariffs and subsidies forcing people in countries outside of the EU to pay their workers next to nothing to ensure their products are cheap enough to compete, and the large rise of right wing groups such as Golden Dawn and the Front Nationale that gain support due to anti-EU sentiment. I was just wandering why it is then, that parties like Labour are so in favour of the EU, they wouldn't even offer a referendum, why do the left support the EU?
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United1892
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Its not its the centre.
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Mpagtches
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Because the right side of the country is closer to the damned thing.
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BenC1997
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(Original post by United1892)
Its not its the centre.
I attended an SWP meeting out of curiosity (wouldn't call myself a socialist) and they too supported the EU, granted they probably don't represent the general consensus of the left.
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BenC1997
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(Original post by Mpagtches)
Because the 'right' side of the country is closer to the damned thing.
Could you elaborate? I'm not calling you out, justtrying to get a better understanding.
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CAElite
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Well it could be to do with industry is many left leaning areas. In Scotland and a lot of Northern England our local economies are still physical export based rather than the large banking and service industries in the SE England. If the UK where to exit the EU, I cant speak for Northern England but the Scottish economy would go belly up as the majority of our exports are physical and would either have to be redirected or pay a large tax to continue trading with the EU. The majority of trade in London isnt physical and is conducted with the Americas and Asiatics so they will be less effected.

Sadly the majority of the UKs voting strength comes from SE England which is why the EU out movement is gaining traction. There are also the closet/open racists across the entirety of the UK who just dont want any more non-Brits coming into the country.

Also as for the rise of facist groups like the Golden Dawn / Front Nationale... We have UKIP.
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IamLiquid
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(Original post by BenC1997)
Could you elaborate? I'm not calling you out, justtrying to get a better understanding.
I think he was making a joke.
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United1892
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(Original post by BenC1997)
I attended an SWP meeting out of curiosity (wouldn't call myself a socialist) and they too supported the EU, granted they probably don't represent the general consensus of the left.
surprising, I'm pretty sure I got sent anti-eu stuff when I was a member. They also took part in the No2EU coalition not long ago.

The left generally disagrees with the common market, promotion of neoliberal parts of the EU but some support the concept as internationalists. The right generally disagrees with the political element due to nationalism and some disagree with free trade.

Centre-right, centre and centre-left generally support it.
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BenC1997
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(Original post by United1892)
surprising, I'm pretty sure I got sent anti-eu stuff when I was a member. They also took part in the No2EU coalition not long ago.

The left generally disagrees with the common market, promotion of neoliberal parts of the EU but some support the concept as internationalists. The right generally disagrees with the political element due to nationalism and some disagree with free trade.

Centre-right, centre and centre-left generally support it.
Ah right, I suppose the speaker must've been an internationalist as you said.
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IamLiquid
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I don’t think this is a left vs. right issue, I think it is a libertarian vs. authoritarian issue. The SWP are a left wing authoritarian party.

Even Corbyn is a sceptic of the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-eu-membership
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BenC1997
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(Original post by IamLiquid)
I think he was making a joke.
Having read it again, I can't believe I missed that haha
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domonict
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It was the Tories who took us into the EU originally and it is still Tory policy to stay, but to sabre rattle a bit to try to negotiate a few points. The anti- Europe Tories are a minority in the parliamentary party
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BenC1997
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(Original post by domonict)
It was the Tories who took us into the EU originally and it is still Tory policy to stay, but to sabre rattle a bit to try to negotiate a few points. The anti- Europe Tories are a minority in the parliamentary party
Wilson applied to join the common market, but the French vetoed our application
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gundog48
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(Original post by BenC1997)
forcing extreme austerity on a leftist Greece
What do you expect them to do? Just because the Greek government is left wing doesn't mean their decisions are seen as the right ones by the left. Just about anyone can see that Greece's policies were unsustainable, and benefited the generation in power at the expense of the future, now the next generation are paying the price for their disproportionate spending.

(Original post by BenC1997)
and the large rise of right wing groups such as Golden Dawn and the Front Nationale that gain support due to anti-EU sentiment.
If I'm understanding this right, you're saying that the Left shouldn't support the EU because their policies anger the far Right which causes a rise of extremist groups? That's like saying that the West are stupid for not giving up individual liberty and secularism because not doing so just inflames groups like Al Qaeda!
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BenC1997
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(Original post by gundog48)
What do you expect them to do? Just because the Greek government is left wing doesn't mean their decisions are seen as the right ones by the left. Just about anyone can see that Greece's policies were unsustainable, and benefited the generation in power at the expense of the future, now the next generation are paying the price for their disproportionate spending.


Syrzia didn't get Greece into this situation, they have just inherited it, admittedly they haven't helped matters much. My point is more that the set up of the EU allows the stronger members to impose their will on the weaker. Obviously though I understand that will happen regardless.


If I'm understanding this right, you're saying that the Left shouldn't support the EU because their policies anger the far Right which causes a rise of extremist groups? That's like saying that the West are stupid for not giving up individual liberty and secularism because not doing so just inflames groups like Al Qaeda!
Good point, I take that statement back in that case.
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thesabbath
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(Original post by BenC1997)
It seems odd to me that the EU draws most of its support in Britain from the left. Many of the things the EU supports and causes should surely receive widespread condemnation from the left within Britain. For example, a centre-right Germany forcing extreme austerity on a leftist Greece, huge tariffs and subsidies forcing people in countries outside of the EU to pay their workers next to nothing to ensure their products are cheap enough to compete, and the large rise of right wing groups such as Golden Dawn and the Front Nationale that gain support due to anti-EU sentiment. I was just wandering why it is then, that parties like Labour are so in favour of the EU, they wouldn't even offer a referendum, why do the left support the EU?
For the same reason that they used to support the Soviet Union. They project their internationalist socialist fantasies onto the EU and are blind to anything the EU does that doesn't fit the narrative.
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Conservationofmass
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(Original post by CAElite)
Well it could be to do with industry is many left leaning areas. In Scotland and a lot of Northern England our local economies are still physical export based rather than the large banking and service industries in the SE England. If the UK where to exit the EU, I cant speak for Northern England but the Scottish economy would go belly up as the majority of our exports are physical and would either have to be redirected or pay a large tax to continue trading with the EU. The majority of trade in London isnt physical and is conducted with the Americas and Asiatics so they will be less effected.

Sadly the majority of the UKs voting strength comes from SE England which is why the EU out movement is gaining traction. There are also the closet/open racists across the entirety of the UK who just dont want any more non-Brits coming into the country.

Also as for the rise of facist groups like the Golden Dawn / Front Nationale... We have UKIP.
Typical moronic left winger can't spell fascist, are you honestly comparing UKIP to a national socialist/fascist political party's lmao. As for exports, exports to the EU drop every day, whilst the amount of exports to outside the EU increases, the common wealth grows at an average of 7.5 percent, the Eurozone can't achieve 1 percent. What exactly are you worried about importing ?,because I can assure you that leaving the EU will mean lower tariffs if any at all, not to mention that we would get a trade agreement with the EU anyway as they export to us more than we do to them, it's within their interest to do so. Other countries work on trade agreements that aren't in the Eu.

UKIP aren't going to stop immigration, so you point there is fatally flawed, by the way by definition someone isn't racist if they want less immigration. You might like it if your entire area is transformed culturally but other people may want to preserve their culture,and you should respect their concerns rather than turning to cheap insults like racist, I get the feeling you live in Scotland, that's affected hugely by mass immigration having such a high percentage of Scottish people,both culturally and ethnically......
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KimKallstrom
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Economocally speaking, the right believe we should be able to spend our money wherever we like without restrictions. The EU is basically a protection racket which stops this via tariffs and regulation.

So it makes sense that the right are anti-EU while the left are all for it as they hate freedom (I know that's really facetious but couldn't help myself )
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United1892
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(Original post by KimKallstrom)
Economocally speaking, the right believe we should be able to spend our money wherever we like without restrictions. The EU is basically a protection racket which stops this via tariffs and regulation.

So it makes sense that the right are anti-EU while the left are all for it as they hate freedom (I know that's really facetious but couldn't help myself )
It's also wrong. :rolleyes:
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jape
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(Original post by BenC1997)
It seems odd to me that the EU draws most of its support in Britain from the left. Many of the things the EU supports and causes should surely receive widespread condemnation from the left within Britain. For example, a centre-right Germany forcing extreme austerity on a leftist Greece, huge tariffs and subsidies forcing people in countries outside of the EU to pay their workers next to nothing to ensure their products are cheap enough to compete, and the large rise of right wing groups such as Golden Dawn and the Front Nationale that gain support due to anti-EU sentiment. I was just wandering why it is then, that parties like Labour are so in favour of the EU, they wouldn't even offer a referendum, why do the left support the EU?
EU leaders got pally with Trade Unionists during Thatcher's Ministry, which led the Left to become ardent Europeans. Pre-Thatcher Labour was very anti-EU. Same reason Tories are so anti-Europe when you'd think the abolition of international borders and the subsequent globalisation of business that would result would be very Tory policies.
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