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Please rank the most highly respect law schools: watch

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    Can all HR staff, people please rank the schools considered to have the most desirable applicants?

    I assume Oxbridge then ...??
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    Considering I think I'm the only "HR" person here, I am guessing this was directed at me...

    I've not been one to get carried away by the prestige bandwagon . But for those that do, it pretty much mirrors the law school rankings in the university rankings. There's a few exceptions, but that will give you a general guidance as to perceived prestige.




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    I would just like to say to those who did not go to a 'prestige' school, there are opportunities in law where people don't give two hoots what school you went to.

    I don't see the obsession with schools and universities myself; it is the person and the person's qualities that are important. Plenty in law know that; so if you are reading this and you did not go to a 'prestige' school, don't worry about it overly! You can find a firm that suits you.

    (Original post by Fmacca)
    Can all HR staff, people please rank the schools considered to have the most desirable applicants?

    I assume Oxbridge then ...??
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    Oxford
    Cambridge
    LSE
    UCL
    Durham
    Warwick
    Kings
    Bristol
    Exeter
    Manchester
    Nottingham
    Queen Mary
    Southampton
    Cardiff
    York

    Roughly in that order.
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    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Alan Shore)
    Oxford
    Cambridge
    LSE
    UCL
    Durham
    Warwick
    Kings
    Bristol
    Exeter
    Manchester
    Nottingham
    Queen Mary
    Southampton
    Cardiff
    York

    Roughly in that order.
    This is just so wrong. Notts dominates after Bristol and Durham, and York is a lot more well-regarded than you're making it out to be.

    The correct list is:
    Oxbridge
    London (LSE, KCL, UCL)
    Durham
    Bristol
    Nottingham
    Warwick
    York
    --- these are all much of a muchness
    Birmingham
    Exeter
    Manchester
    Queen Mary
    SOAS
    Sheffield
    ----
    Southampton
    Cardiff etc.

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    You have Oxford and Cambridge, where the name is still enough to get you interviews, provided that you write half-decent applications and have a 2.1.

    I would then go with LSE, Durham and UCL. Durham in particular seems to be a massive favourite with some of the MC in particular.

    You then have Warwick, KCL, Bristol and Nottingham. All strong universities, but you can't ride off the university brand like you can do with the above. I think the latter two are more historically prestigious, in the sense that I've met/know many senior people who went to Bristol and Nottingham, yet they don't seem to be as well represented in the trainee intakes of the leading firms.

    In a vacation scheme/trainee intake at one of the MC/SC/US firms, I would say that roughly 30-40% (at least) will be from Oxbridge, and then another 30 -40% from the next tier. You usually have 1/2 people from Warwick/KCL/Bristol/Nottingham, and the odd person from a solid university like Manchester, Birmingham, Exeter, York, or one of the scottish universities.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    This is just so wrong. Notts dominates after Bristol and Durham, and York is a lot more well-regarded than you're making it out to be.

    The correct list is
    Close but nae cigar, kiddo. You're right and wrong about Nottingham; it's better than the other poster made it out to be, and it's better than you've made it out to be because it's actually more prestigious than Bristol (imo). Another mistake is your ranking of QMUL which is a course I am not a fan of but even I would have to admit it's ranked just around the Bristol level. You've ranked Birmingham when it's around the Manchester rank in reality. Exeter is on the same level of York, and both are just below Bristol. Newcastle is just below these, as well, which is something you and the other poster missed off. Then there's the rest, with Liverpool being decidedly the worst RG uni for law (and its ABB offers reflect that).
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    And this is why it's a load of rubbish.

    Because everyone has an opinion on it but can never have evidence really to back it up to say WHY the universities are "ranked" in this way apart from more opinion or because someone told them so.




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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    This is just so wrong. Notts dominates after Bristol and Durham, and York is a lot more well-regarded than you're making it out to be.

    The correct list is:
    Oxbridge
    London (LSE, KCL, UCL)
    Durham
    Bristol
    Nottingham
    Warwick
    York
    --- these are all much of a muchness
    Birmingham
    Exeter
    Manchester
    Queen Mary
    SOAS
    Sheffield
    ----
    Southampton
    Cardiff etc.

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    I'm guessing you're a Nottingham student?

    I was posting from my knowledge of the trainees at my MC firm and also from the universities that I chose to apply to.

    From my experience, I haven't met all that many Nottingham students but have met more Warwick and Exeter ones. It doesn't really matter all that much though for these universities as, beyond Oxbridge, LSE, UCL and Durham, the universities have similar numbers in intakes. Those five really dominate numbers from my experience of the MC and the LPC.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    And this is why it's a load of rubbish.

    Because everyone has an opinion on it but can never have evidence really to back it up to say WHY the universities are "ranked" in this way apart from more opinion or because someone told them so.
    This is why it's subjective, but not necessarily rubbish. There are clear groupings; there are universities like UCL and LSE right in the top group and Teesside and London Met in the bottom group. To have a clearly structured #1 and #2, and so on, is wrong. But that's not to say all stratification is always rubbish.

    You might be not be bothered to lay out the different groupings, but that's a different story.
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    (Original post by callum_law)
    This is why it's subjective, but not necessarily rubbish. There are clear groupings; there are universities like UCL and LSE right in the top group and Teesside and London Met in the bottom group. To have a clearly structured #1 and #2, and so on, is wrong. But that's not to say all stratification is always rubbish.

    You might be not be bothered to lay out the different groupings, but that's a different story.
    I just don't think it's a relevant or helpful discussion, especially in these circumstances/forums.

    "Prestige" is an opinion - it cannot be assessed or quantified. Even numbers of trainees at firms is a pretty shoddy methods of deeming which is more prestigious than others.

    This is going to be a bit of a bad analogy but hopefully this demonstrates why I am unwilling to participate.

    Ranking universities for prestige is like ranking prestige of cars brands. There are brand names that attract the term prestige but ultimately their engines are not that different, and they often get that reputation because they have a lot more money and resource poured into the building and marketing of the car. They also benefit from high profile people owning the cars, which in turn helps people aspire to have them in the future.

    But getting a training contract is not like purchasing a car, it's like getting from A to B. Driving in a "prestigious" car might be seen to get you from A to B potentially more quickly or more reliably, but it's likely that will be the same with the majority of the other "brands", especially in the modern day.

    What won't help you get from A to B is if you didn't learn how to drive, you drove like an idiot, you forgot to fill up with fuel, you didn't maintain the car, you didn't have a map or you didn't know where your destination was. Your input is far more important than the car's in getting you to your destination. It is their input that people need to be concerned about way above and beyond the name/brand of the university getting them there.

    However, as I have stressed before, where going to a more "prestigious" university can really help is not with the name but again the resource behind it - they may provide a much wider range of services to support the degree.

    If their degree was a car it would like be getting a gold plated warranty, driving lessons, a map and vouchers for fuel. But there are a fair number of the prestigious universities many have listed towards the top of their perceived rankings that don't provide the equivalent of all of these things and yet their brand remains strong.



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    (Original post by J-SP)
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    A Lambo will get you there faster than a Micra, though. Fewer people have access to the Lambo, it's more expensive, and so forth. I see your point in that it's not too useful, namely it might lead people from particular unis (such as my own) to believe they have no hope in hell of securing TCs if they don't attend a university in the uppermost stratum.
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    (Original post by callum_law)
    A Lambo will get you there faster than a Micra, though. Fewer people have access to the Lambo, it's more expensive, and so forth. I see your point in that it's not too useful, namely it might lead people from particular unis (such as my own) to believe they have no hope in hell of securing TCs if they don't attend a university in the uppermost stratum.
    Not if you and everyone else is restricted by a speed limit though!

    Using the rubbish analogy, a prestigious university might be able to advise you of the quickest route, while a non-prestigious university might send you on a route that takes you around the houses, and that's why it might be "quicker" for some rather than others.


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    I think this survey is the only one that offers anything close to a quality answer. Don't forget that it's still a survey and can be subject to incorrect/non-representative data and whatnot.

    What most people think (especially on TSR) is more often than not worthless.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    I think this survey is the only one that offers anything close to a quality answer. Don't forget that it's still a survey and can be subject to incorrect/non-representative data and whatnot.

    What most people think (especially on TSR) is more often than not worthless.
    Even things like this can be seen as seriously flawed. It doesn't take into account the amount of people applying from these universities to the firms in question.

    With one firm I worked at we hadn't recruited from a number of universities we "wanted" to because we received very low application numbers. Ironically that was because there was a perception that university want seen as "good enough" and that we wouldn't be interested in their students. When you are getting small numbers of applicants from one uni but 100s from Oxford, you will end up recruiting more Oxford students.


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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Even things like this can be seen as seriously flawed. It doesn't take into account the amount of people applying from these universities to the firms in question.

    With one firm I worked at we hadn't recruited from a number of universities we "wanted" to because we received very low application numbers. Ironically that was because there was a perception that university want seen as "good enough" and that we wouldn't be interested in their students. When you are getting small numbers of applicants from one uni but 100s from Oxford, you will end up recruiting more Oxford students.


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    Indeed - it also doesn't factor the student population at different universities (ie LSE may have 9k while Notthingham may have 36k, which is a gigantic difference). Still, I think it's a much more solid source than most people around here!

    I remember Freshfields explaining that fact thoroughly as well - they said Oxbridge candidates are much more confident and so make applications without fear, contrary to students at other universities. This means that Oxbridge students will obviously feature more.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Indeed - it also doesn't factor the student population at different universities (ie LSE may have 9k while Notthingham may have 36k, which is a gigantic difference). Still, I think it's a much more solid source than most people around here!

    I remember Freshfields explaining that fact thoroughly as well - they said Oxbridge candidates are much more confident and so make applications without fear, contrary to students at other universities. This means that Oxbridge students will obviously feature more.
    Completely agree with your first point. St Andrews is always a prime example. With a very small student population and no law faculty, no one ever mentions it when it comes to ranking it against other universities. But if anyone really wanted to label it in terms of "prestige", it would probably be up there with Bristol and Durham. Bath is another one that rarely gets mentioned purely where it doesn't have a law faculty either.


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