The Student Room Group

SGA 1979 (as amended) or SGSA 1982?

I have a little problem with interpreting which statute applies to variosu transactions; I know that -

If I get my car serviced, they fit parts that prove to be faulty - SSGA 1982 applies to those goods used.

If I buy a computer and it proves to be faulty - SGA 1979 applies.

NOW;

if I buy double glazing and the company I buy it off fits it as part of the contract - PRESUMABLY it is SSGA 1982?

if I buy a kitchen and they say "we'll throw in free fitting" - is it SGA 1979 or SSGA 1982?

Where do you make the distinction between buying the goods or buying a service with goods being part of it. Is it ever the case that BOTH acts might apply under the same contract?

I hope I've made it reasonably clear what I'm asking - I doubt it...

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Reply 1

I've only done SGA and only very briefly in this context, but if I had to guess, it would depend how the damage was sustained. Were the goods faulty, or the services? I assume it could be both, if both were involved... but I may be wrong.

Reply 2

Rushed that message on my way out to the gym - just arrived back and noticed my typo - I of course meant the SSGA 1982 (Sale and Supply of Goods).

I'm really not sure either, Lewis. The contract lecturer has indicated in a roundabout way that there could well be a question on Sale of Goods in the exam... Therefore I think it prudent to establish exactly HOW the statute/s apply in certain circumstances.

As I understand it - if you contract for a service and they supply the goods as part of that service then it is clearly SSGA 1982 that applies to both the GOODS SUPPLIED AND THE SERVICE - presumably this would be the case if you bought double glazing from an established fitting company.

But if you set out specifically to buy GOODS and they offer to fit for free - well, that isn't patently clear and none of the many texts I've referred to make it particularaly clear either.

Reply 3

Consider a reference to the rather beast of a treatise on the subject - Benjamin's Sale of Goods. There might be something in there about it. I'm using it at the minute for International Trade Finance, and although differing chapters use different authors, i would imagine it's good for all! Since both pertain to goods, it's not unreasonable to assume that both acts might be covered.

Reply 4

Thnaks for the heads-up on the book, Lewis... It's listed as a reference copy in the library (6th ed - 2002), I'll try to get in tomorrow or over the weekend and hopefully find an answer!!!

Reply 5

7th ed 2006 would probably be better :biggrin:. It's probably in your short loan or something. 2200 pages on everything from the basic sale contract through to conflicts... varied stuff! Chitty on Contracts might also have something, probably in vol. 2 since vol. 1 is all about general principles.

I know I'm only recommending the monsters, but if you can't find it in enough detail in the standard text, then the best option to step up your game to the top level!

Reply 6

Any standard text on the sale of goods, or even on Commercial Law (including the excellent one by one of your lecturers) will have a good explanation. But it's pretty complicated, and often, it is far from clear how you would classify such "mixed" transactions. But both SoGA and SSGA imply the same terms regarding quality and fitness of the goods supplied.

Reply 7

cwtf
Any standard text on the sale of goods, or even on Commercial Law (including the excellent one by one of your lecturers) will have a good explanation. But it's pretty complicated, and often, it is far from clear how you would classify such "mixed" transactions. But both SoGA and SSGA imply the same terms regarding quality and fitness of the goods supplied.


Time for 1 Act to cover it all?

Reply 8

I think I've grasped it... although I haven't dared to venture into the SSGCR 2002 yet!
The answer, I think is in the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 - it states in section 1 that it applies to the transfer of goods except in an excepted contract... What is an excepted contract - well, s1(2)(a) tells us it doesn't apply to a contratc for the "sale of goods". So - my interpreation is such that it IMPLIES that the two will never apply together (SoGA 1979 and SoGSA 1982).

Therefore - if a service has been provided (e.g. free fitting for a kitchen or windows) and you wish to maintain the right to have an action for that service then it will have to be the SoGSA 1982 that you seek redress under for faulty goods. Clearly the SoGSA 1982 does include the same implied conditions of s13-15 of the SoGA 1979 (s3-5 of SoGSA 1982).

Having read the jouranl article - 'Remedying The Unfit Fitted Kitchen', Robert Bradgate (LQR 2004, 120(Oct), 558-563) - it states (at p561) that the two Acts are "mutually exclusive". I've intrepreted that phrase as support for my conclusion that the two Acts cannot apply simultaneously under the same contract? However, I'm not totally convinced I'm correct in this assumprtion although I can find no further clarification.

The way I intend to deal with any question on "transfer of goods" is to apply the SGSA 1982 whenever a service has been involved, and iobviously the SGA 1979 when it is a pure transfer of goods and no service.

Is a consolidating Act required... well, in my opinion, it'd sure make things a sight more straightforward. I've wasted a good deal of time and offort coming to a conclusion that I'm STILL not certain about however it is one that seems most logical and justifiable.

Reply 9

Ethereal
Time for 1 Act to cover it all?


Yes. Unsuprisingly, a point that has been made to the appropriate people. It's the usual problem, though: lack of parliamentary time and other priorities.

Reply 10

cwtf
Yes. Unsuprisingly, a point that has been made to the appropriate people. It's the usual problem, though: lack of parliamentary time and other priorities.


You mean the old gem that it isn't going to win votes?

Reply 11

Fireman John
I think I've grasped it... although I haven't dared to venture into the SSGCR 2002 yet!
The answer, I think is in the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 - it states in section 1 that it applies to the transfer of goods except in an excepted contract... What is an excepted contract - well, s1(2)(a) tells us it doesn't apply to a contratc for the "sale of goods". So - my interpreation is such that it IMPLIES that the two will never apply together (SoGA 1979 and SoGSA 1982).

Therefore - if a service has been provided (e.g. free fitting for a kitchen or windows) and you wish to maintain the right to have an action for that service then it will have to be the SoGSA 1982 that you seek redress under for faulty goods. Clearly the SoGSA 1982 does include the same implied conditions of s13-15 of the SoGA 1979 (s3-5 of SoGSA 1982).

Having read the jouranl article - 'Remedying The Unfit Fitted Kitchen', Robert Bradgate (LQR 2004, 120(Oct), 558-563) - it states (at p561) that the two Acts are "mutually exclusive". I've intrepreted that phrase as support for my conclusion that the two Acts cannot apply simultaneously under the same contract? However, I'm not totally convinced I'm correct in this assumprtion although I can find no further clarification.

The way I intend to deal with any question on "transfer of goods" is to apply the SGSA 1982 whenever a service has been involved, and iobviously the SGA 1979 when it is a pure transfer of goods and no service.

Is a consolidating Act required... well, in my opinion, it'd sure make things a sight more straightforward. I've wasted a good deal of time and offort coming to a conclusion that I'm STILL not certain about however it is one that seems most logical and justifiable.


Yes, if the SGA applies, SGSA cannot apply. However, just because there's a service element in there does not mean you automatically end up within the SGSA. Classification is still incredibly complicated - have a look at relevant case-law around the issues.

Reply 12

Ethereal
You mean the old gem that it isn't going to win votes?


Funny that.

Reply 13

How could a new act be got through then?

Reply 14

cwtf
Yes, if the SGA applies, SGSA cannot apply. However, just because there's a service element in there does not mean you automatically end up within the SGSA. Classification is still incredibly complicated - have a look at relevant case-law around the issues.


Hmmm... I'm conscious of the fact that I MAY be getting myself bogged down into intricacies and detail above and beyond the scope of the module. I'm already confusing myself and I think I'm perhaps looking at the whole matter too closely, after all this is only an element of the contract module. Although it has been strongly hinted that there WILL be a SGA/SGSA question in the exam, the fact that this is a contract exam and not consumer - and given that the goods/services issue is complicated - I doubt they'd be so devious as to make it overly complex??? Would they?

Reply 15

Fireman John
Hmmm... I'm conscious of the fact that I MAY be getting myself bogged down into intricacies and detail above and beyond the scope of the module. I'm already confusing myself and I think I'm perhaps looking at the whole matter too closely, after all this is only an element of the contract module. Although it has been strongly hinted that there WILL be a SGA/SGSA question in the exam, the fact that this is a contract exam and not consumer - and given that the goods/services issue is complicated - I doubt they'd be so devious as to make it overly complex??? Would they?


Just to point out that SGA/SGSA are not limited to consumer transactions, but cover B2B, as well.

Reply 16

Ethereal
How could a new act be got through then?


Possibly via a Regulatory Reform Order. That's one of those interesting-and-sensible-sounding-but-on-closer-inspection-very-worrying recent inventions. It allows for legislation to be repealed, consolidated or amended where this would have the effect of reducing the regulatory burden.

Reply 17

cwtf
Just to point out that SGA/SGSA are not limited to consumer transactions, but cover B2B, as well.


Point taken - although the gist of the point I was trying to convey is that perhaps the real complexities would be reserved for consumer or, in the case of B2B transactions - commercial modules and not the contract module. I suspect the contract module question will "stick to basics". I will of course seek out this case law - not one to be staisfied until I have grasped a reasonably comprehensive understanding - but in terms of priorities for the contract exam - I'm not sure it should rank too highly?

Reply 18

Fireman John
Point taken - although the gist of the point I was trying to convey is that perhaps the real complexities would be reserved for consumer or, in the case of B2B transactions - commercial modules and not the contract module. I suspect the contract module question will "stick to basics". I will of course seek out this case law - not one to be staisfied until I have grasped a reasonably comprehensive understanding - but in terms of priorities for the contract exam - I'm not sure it should rank too highly?


You're probably right. We've tried to explain the law in the Blackstone's Guide to Consumer Sales and Associated Guarantees pp.30-33. Maybe Yorkshire_Laura could say whether that would be helpful (she has mentioned using the Guide before?

Reply 19

The book is quite helpful, yes. I have a really bad memory but I remember finding it quite handy for my coursework. Actually I think I used it to write about an issue of law which CWTF had expressed an opinon on which was unclear in SGA and there had been no judicial authority on it.