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The Solution to the Syria/Iraq Crisis watch

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    1) Gather together the world's nations (not just us) - the UK, USA, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Japan, Israel etc. Then declare war on ISIS and launch a full scale invasion upon them, obliterate every last one of them (unlike the feeble airstrikes at the moment). I am talking about hundreds of thousands of soldiers, tanks, planes. It is essential to gain the military support of the Arab countries in this as the UK alone cannot do anything.

    2) Meanwhile, dedicate some of the military to training the Syrian men for fighting. Instead of letting them come to the UK and Germany etc., train them and supply them with arms so they can assist in reclaiming their country and freeing it.

    3) Dedicate billions into more refugee camps, food and water and more importantly, setting up homes and infrastructure in the freed Syria now ISIS have been eradicated. Again, must be a world effort.

    This isn't going to be fixed by some piddly airstrikes when there are thousands of these terrorists out there. At the same time, the military effort needs to be a shared responsibility - as the UK and US alone cannot again be left to sort things out.

    We CANNOT take the millions of incoming refugees into already full countries - so we should help the Syrians regain control so they can move back into their own country, rather than just trying to ignore the fact that military action is needed.
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    It's too late right now for me to write a long response to this, but the biggest issue: what is 4)? What comes next? It's all very well saying we should destroy ISIS, but if you think Syria was in great shape before the ISIS surge in early 2014 then you have a short memory. Do we put Assad back in power? Do we support the opposition (a large part of which is slightly more moderate Islamist militias)? What happens to the Kurds? The questions go on.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    It's too late right now for me to write a long response to this, but the biggest issue: what is 4)? What comes next? It's all very well saying we should destroy ISIS, but if you think Syria was in great shape before the ISIS surge in early 2014 then you have a short memory. Do we put Assad back in power? Do we support the opposition (a large part of which is slightly more moderate Islamist militias)? What happens to the Kurds? The questions go on.
    While there was considerable unrest before the rise of ISIS, it was nowhere near as bad. They are now actively attempting and succeeding to take over the entire country - burning, pillaging, murdering, raping and destroying anyone and anything in their way.

    A possibility would be the forced introduction of a democratic election, or a government that looked out for the interests of all the parties while excluding those of extremist militias.

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    I agree. ISIS should be COMPLETELY DESTROYED! FOREVER! The terrorists should ALL be killed because they think they can kill others.

    People's religion is their PRIVATE issue. They cannot be forced to be Muslims or Christians etc. In the ISIS' view, all the people should be Muslims or they must be killed! SICK, but unfortunately true. I HATE ISIS!
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    One more thing: A few months ago, I heard something about "Jihadi John" - a terrorist of British origin. What about him? Is he imprisoned or killed? Such people should be at least isolated!
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    As soon as the media start showing the inevitable collateral damage you will lose any support amongst the Muslim population in the west. They are slitting the throats of women and children now and there seems no shortage of support for their aims, if not the methods.
    Last I saw there are more British muslims fighting with ISIS than with the British army.
    Says it all really.
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    It isn't only ISIS that's the problem.


    Scores of groups with different motives.

    Get rid of ISIS and Syria becomes an Iraninan-owned country. That will bring its own problems and new conflicts.
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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    1) Gather together the world's nations (not just us) - the UK, USA, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Japan, Israel etc. Then declare war on ISIS and launch a full scale invasion upon them, obliterate every last one of them (unlike the feeble airstrikes at the moment). I am talking about hundreds of thousands of soldiers, tanks, planes. It is essential to gain the military support of the Arab countries in this as the UK alone cannot do anything.
    oh wow, is it really that easy? oh boy...!
    ISIS are guerillas. you can't find guerillas easily. that's the strength of guerilla armies. flooding in troops and armies would just get citizens there killed more often. that's what happened in vietnam, after all. and just like 'nam, sending a butt-load of troops and vehicles will probably cause a spillage into neighbouring countries in some way. also, why is it our responsibility to clean up the middle east? especially syria. iraq I might partly understand, and afghanistan, because we've been involved there, but in general, we shouldn't be involved *anywhere* militarily

    2) Meanwhile, dedicate some of the military to training the Syrian men for fighting. Instead of letting them come to the UK and Germany etc., train them and supply them with arms so they can assist in reclaiming their country and freeing it.
    yeah. arming rebels has always worked out *great* in the middle east...
    Spoiler:
    Show



    3) Dedicate billions into more refugee camps, food and water and more importantly, setting up homes and infrastructure in the freed Syria now ISIS have been eradicated. Again, must be a world effort.
    why should we? what do we as a nation state have to gain? what a collosal waste of money, not just for us, but for all these other countries that you're suggesting should be involved to spill blood! both their own men's blood and foreign citizens' blood!

    This isn't going to be fixed by some piddly airstrikes when there are thousands of these terrorists out there. At the same time, the military effort needs to be a shared responsibility - as the UK and US alone cannot again be left to sort things out.
    again, they're guerillas. why do you think afghanistan has been the longest war in the last century?

    We CANNOT take the millions of incoming refugees into already full countries - so we should help the Syrians regain control so they can move back into their own country, rather than just trying to ignore the fact that military action is needed.
    why should we? what does a dictatorship like syria have to do with britain?
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    (Original post by LockHeedS)
    It isn't only ISIS that's the problem.


    Scores of groups with different motives.

    Get rid of ISIS and Syria becomes an Iraninan-owned country. That will bring its own problems and new conflicts.
    Organisations like this are the main thread. In your view, why would Syria be Iranian in such case?
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    drop in a motherload of the good green, prerolled, and stick on a harold and kumar marathon
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    You're understating the role of air strikes. It has been shown on numerous occasions (mostly by the Kurdish groups, but occasionally by the Iraqi government) that air strikes with a reliable ground force can be very effective at forcing ISIS out.

    The Peshmerga (Iraq) and YPG (mostly Syria) have pushed ISIS away from the Kurdish areas, but they will never go too far into the Sunni Arab areas. The Iraqi government has had mixed results, but they have successfully taken back some towns.

    In Syria, we oppose Assad's government (so don't back them with air strikes to fight ISIS) but there is no "moderate" rebel force strong enough. The Iraqi government has had mixed results as I said, but they are struggling. So we don't really have a decent ground force for the Sunni Arab areas - THAT is where the problem lies, not with the air strikes. Air strikes with a decent ground force can work brilliantly.
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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    OK - how am I breaching these British values?
    The encouragement of the killing of a people that have not been afforded their due process, which runs contrary to the HRA 1998 specifically, Articles: 2, 5, 6, 7 and generally 9, 10, 11.

    Also, you are breaching the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights by attempting to undermine Articles 2, 6, 10, 11, 12, 47 and 48.

    In addition, you are attempting to violate the rights of a person (through restriction) who is entitled to rely on Articles 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11 of the European Convention of Human Rights, as the UK is a signatory and has ratified the convention.

    Furthermore, you are attempting to restrict access to certain rights (Articles 2, 3, 7, 9, 10, 11, 18, 19 and 20) which is contained in the UN Declaration of Human Rights

    My arguments are perfectly rational. I've stated that the scum deserved to be killed after what they have done and planned to do, and that anybody who supports them is a traitor to this country.
    Yes, that's an emotional argument. See above for a logical and clear argument.

    Do you agree with the left wing that the death of two terrorists is tragic?
    Were these people given their rights? Was due process followed?
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    You're understating the role of air strikes. It has been shown on numerous occasions (mostly by the Kurdish groups, but occasionally by the Iraqi government) that air strikes with a reliable ground force can be very effective at forcing ISIS out.
    Not always.

    The Peshmerga (Iraq) and YPG (mostly Syria) have pushed ISIS away from the Kurdish areas, but they will never go too far into the Sunni Arab areas. The Iraqi government has had mixed results, but they have successfully taken back some towns.
    That's because they don't want to or can't operate as effectively.

    In Syria, we oppose Assad's government (so don't back them with air strikes to fight ISIS) but there is no "moderate" rebel force strong enough. The Iraqi government has had mixed results as I said, but they are struggling. So we don't really have a decent ground force for the Sunni Arab areas - THAT is where the problem lies, not with the air strikes. Air strikes with a decent ground force can work brilliantly.
    Only to a certain extent.

    War, is mostly played out on psychological terms. Weapons will only get you so far and boots on the ground will extend that a little further.

    There comes a time, when you run out of options, not because you want to, but because of drag. You are no longer motivated.

    Take Iraq and Afghanistan for examples. They were fighting for democracy and to avenge the deaths of Americans respectively. However, after a time, the initial thrill wears off and you become dejected and miserable, even more so in guerrilla warfare.

    The same thing happened in Vietnam to the Americans. With a conventional army, you will lose the battle.

    What you need are fanatics, those with zeal, those that will readily sacrifice themselves to control their land. In effect, you need ISIS tactics superimposed upon a "friendly group". We had that in the Kurds but once they secured the territory that they are intent on carving a state from, they have been quiet, as their main objective has been achieved. Why risk all that to push on?

    British/American or Western boots on the ground will not do the trick. It will be a bloodbath if we go in. Do you think IS doesn't command much support in that region?

    At the end of the day, we need to ascertain our objective. Do we want to get rid of Assad? If we do, then IS will be the only group to make headway in a short time frame.
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    This is all quite naive


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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    1) Gather together the world's nations (not just us) - the UK, USA, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Japan, Israel etc. Then declare war on ISIS and launch a full scale invasion upon them, obliterate every last one of them (unlike the feeble airstrikes at the moment). I am talking about hundreds of thousands of soldiers, tanks, planes. It is essential to gain the military support of the Arab countries in this as the UK alone cannot do anything.

    2) Meanwhile, dedicate some of the military to training the Syrian men for fighting. Instead of letting them come to the UK and Germany etc., train them and supply them with arms so they can assist in reclaiming their country and freeing it.

    3) Dedicate billions into more refugee camps, food and water and more importantly, setting up homes and infrastructure in the freed Syria now ISIS have been eradicated. Again, must be a world effort.

    This isn't going to be fixed by some piddly airstrikes when there are thousands of these terrorists out there. At the same time, the military effort needs to be a shared responsibility - as the UK and US alone cannot again be left to sort things out.

    We CANNOT take the millions of incoming refugees into already full countries - so we should help the Syrians regain control so they can move back into their own country, rather than just trying to ignore the fact that military action is needed.
    1) And once Isis have been eradicated whom do you hand power to? Bashar Assad, a dictatator who has no qualms gassing and bombing his own civilians?
    Al nusra front? Free Syrian Army?

    How do you think the millions of muslims in the UK and western countries will react when one of our bombs goes astray and takes out 20 civilian muslims? Do you think they will understand or will this further their resentment of the West and increase support for ISIS whilst hundreds of thousands of Muslims march on the streets of London with placards inciting to kill British Police and Army?



    2) We and America have tried this.. it doesnt work... they continue to collect their wages and as soon as a handful of ISIS turn up, drop millions of pounds worth of weapons and equipment and run. ISIS then get the weapons and grow in power.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isi...rs-run-n267261

    3) We already do this

    You are right, we cannot take in any refugees just like we cannot sort out the ****hole that is the middle east. The middle east im afraid needs Tyrants and dictators like Gaddafi to keep the Islamist militants in check
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    You are right, we cannot take in any refugees just like we cannot sort out the ****hole that is the middle east. The middle east im afraid needs Tyrants and dictators like Gaddafi to keep the Islamist militants in check
    But...But...But what aout "democracy, human rights, and tolerance"?
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    (Original post by Errm23)
    But...But...But what aout "democracy, human rights, and tolerance"?
    Apparently they are not universal.

    Which is a shame because societies with them do seem to do much better don't you think.

    Ps reported you
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    (Original post by Errm23)
    But...But...But what aout "democracy, human rights, and tolerance"?
    Sorry?
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Apparently they are not universal.
    Quick! Send a telegram to David Cameron

    Which is a shame because societies with them do seem to do much better don't you think.

    Ps reported you
    They sure seem to fool people a lot into thinking that they actually can determine their destiny.
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    How about stop training Syrian rebels and help Assad and Iran fight ISIS?

    Iran is doing more to fight ISIS than anyone, while all America and even Britain seems to do is manage to accidentally deliver weapons to ISIS instead of people fighting them like Kurds


    Come on ISIS is being supported secretly to take out Assad and any other enemies the elite want taken out
 
 
 
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