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If Islam is a religion that opposes murder, then what's with all the killings? watch

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    What I struggle to understand about the religion is that ISIS claim to be creating an Islamic state across Syria and Turkey and other countries in that region, they are doing so by killing and slaughtering innocent people and anyone that stands up to them. They say they do this in the name of Allah, yet the Quran states that murder is wrong.

    It sounds odd to me because I know about these extremists trying to radicalise all these good and normal Muslims, yet somehow, even with all the praying they do and reading of the Quran they do, some will still become terrorists knowing full well that murder in their religion is wrong.

    Sorry if this didn't make too much sense, I just don't have enough time to write everything I felt like saying on this topic so I had to compact it all.

    I should probably apologise in advance if anything I have said turns out to be wrong and also in case anyone of the Islam religion is offended by this as from reading it back, it sounds a bit blunt to me.
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    Sunni and Shia divisions. You get Christians and catholics but you don't see them shooting down each other.
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    sadly the term 'you shouldn't kill an innocent' in islam can be used by muslims to define who ISN'T innocent

    and that seem to be anyone they disagree with or even looked a them funny so that then becomes open season
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    Because Islam contradicts itself and there are many interpretations of it.

    So while Islam sometimes opposes murder, it also encourages murder
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    (Original post by Mattinfenwa)
    What I struggle to understand about the religion is that ISIS claim to be creating an Islamic state across Syria and Turkey and other countries in that region, they are doing so by killing and slaughtering innocent people and anyone that stands up to them. They say they do this in the name of Allah, yet the Quran states that murder is wrong.

    It sounds odd to me because I know about these extremists trying to radicalise all these good and normal Muslims, yet somehow, even with all the praying they do and reading of the Quran they do, some will still become terrorists knowing full well that murder in their religion is wrong.

    Sorry if this didn't make too much sense, I just don't have enough time to write everything I felt like saying on this topic so I had to compact it all.

    I should probably apologise in advance if anything I have said turns out to be wrong and also in case anyone of the Islam religion is offended by this as from reading it back, it sounds a bit blunt to me.
    There is an oft-quoted verse from the Koran that a lot of Muslims and apologists for Islam like to wave around in defence of their claim that Islam is a religion of peace. This is what it says:

    'Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.' - Koran 5:32

    What they often forget to mention is what is commonly thought of in the Muslim world as 'corruption [done] in the land', a list which could go on forever but almost always includes: homosexuality, apostasy, adultery, following a non-Abrahamic faith and not paying the Jizya tax, Shia Islam and other sects (at least in the majority-Sunni countries) and so on.

    Of course, ISIS also feels the imperative to establish an Islamic state, hence why they continue to try to expand. They believe that Islam is the complete guide to life, delivered courtesy of Muhammad, for all times and for all people, so it's hardly a surprise that they're trying to impose it on as many people as they can.

    The brutality, at least that which isn't directly inspired by their religious beliefs (e.g. burning people alive), is mostly for effect, I think. This is how they scare people. They've also mastered the art of propaganda via social media so that they can make Hollywood-quality films about their atrocities to reach people who aren't obviously endangered by them.

    #RantOver.
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    Isis are not true muslims, some of the hostages who managed to escape told some branches of the media that they did not even have a quran in their headquarters so I think they are just using Islam's negative image in the media to justify their actions or summat.
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    Got a friend who I thought was Jewish. Got offended when I asked him if he was because he is an Arab. He said nasty things about them.
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    (Original post by hs1var19)
    Sunni and Shia divisions. You get Christians and catholics but you don't see them shooting down each other.
    Catholics are Christians... In any case, they were shooting each other down not so long ago in Northern Ireland and, even today, there are some walls and things which separate communities in Northern Ireland.

    And that's just the recent stuff. Wait 'til you get to the good old Middle Ages...
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    (Original post by mud4554r)
    Isis are not true muslims
    What makes you say that? And what is a 'true Muslim?'
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    ffs, if everybody in the world had the exact same opinions, outlook, were all Muslim, and followed the same specific branch of Islam, we wouldn't need all the killings would we! Sheesh
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    It's down to interpretation. People behave as if the difference between mainstream Islam and ISIS is akin to the difference between the Church of England and Nazi Catholicism. Actually it's more like the difference between Protestantism and regular Catholicism. Take transubstantiation as an example. In Catholicism it is literally the body and blood of Christ, in Protestantism it is figuratively the body and blood of Christ.

    ISIS is simply the result of a literalist reading of the text. If you read it as figurative, then you can simply apply the rules to yourself rather than impose it on others. ISIS imposes it on others because they interpret the Qu'ran and Hadith literally.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    What makes you say that? And what is a 'true Muslim?'
    What Isis seem to do is try to force people to become muslims. However in the Qur'an it actually states that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Only God can judge but in my opinion a true muslim is someone who follows the Qur'an and the teachings of the prophet muhammed pbuh.
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    (Original post by mud4554r)
    What Isis seem to do is try to force people to become muslims. However in the Qur'an it actually states that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Only God can judge but in my opinion a true muslim is someone who follows the Qur'an and the teachings of the prophet muhammed pbuh.
    So it's your opinion, then? They tend to follow the Koran quite well in my view. The teachings of Muhammad too. After all, it is the teachings of Muhammad which prescribe punishment for apostasy and blasphemy, which is what Shias and other people are often charged with before they're killed.

    It appears your prophet contradicts the Koran: The Koran apparently says there's no compulsion in religion. The prophet says that anybody who leaves Islam should be killed. Which is it? In this instance it's not possible to follow both the Koran and the prophet.
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    isis are muslims. it's a fact
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    So it's your opinion, then? They tend to follow the Koran quite well in my view. The teachings of Muhammad too. After all, it is the teachings of Muhammad which prescribe punishment for apostasy and blasphemy, which is what Shias and other people are often charged with before they're killed.

    It appears your prophet contradicts the Koran: The Koran apparently says there's no compulsion in religion. The prophet says that anybody who leaves Islam should be killed. Which is it? In this instance it's not possible to follow both the Koran and the prophet.
    Killing innocent people is a grave sin in Islam. It is as if they have killed the whole of mankind. When the muslims had to go to war during Muhammed's time, Muhammed never wanted to fight unless there was absolutely no other choice.
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    (Original post by mud4554r)
    Killing innocent people is a grave sin in Islam. It is as if they have killed the whole of mankind. When the muslims had to go to war during Muhammed's time, Muhammed never wanted to fight unless there was absolutely no other choice.
    I've already pointed out what's wrong with that claim in my earlier post:

    (Original post by Hydeman)
    There is an oft-quoted verse from the Koran that a lot of Muslims and apologists for Muslims like to wave around in defence of their claim that Islam is a religion of peace. This is what it says:

    'Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.' - Koran 5:32

    What they often forget to mention is what is commonly thought of in the Muslim world as 'corruption [done] in the land', a list which could go on forever but almost always includes: homosexuals, apostates, adulterers, people of non-Abrahamic faith who don't pay the Jizya tax, Shia people and followers of other sects (at least in the majority-Sunni countries) and so on.

    Of course, ISIS also feels the imperative to establish an Islamic state, hence why they continue to try to expand. They believe that Islam is the complete guide to life, delivered courtesy of Muhammad, for all times and for all people, so it's hardly a surprise that they're trying to impose it on as many people as they can.

    The brutality, at least that which isn't directly inspired by their religious beliefs (e.g. burning people alive), is mostly for effect, I think. This is how they scare people. They've also mastered the art of propaganda via social media so that they can make Hollywood-quality films about their atrocities to reach people who aren't obviously endangered by them.

    #RantOver.
    Are you denying that the punishment for apostasy, as prescribed by Muhammad, is death?
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    (Original post by hs1var19)
    Sunni and Shia divisions. You get Christians and catholics but you don't see them shooting down each other.
    Those Christians and Catholics. Never get on do they.

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    (Original post by Mattinfenwa)
    What I struggle to understand about the religion is that ISIS claim to be creating an Islamic state across Syria and Turkey and other countries in that region, they are doing so by killing and slaughtering innocent people and anyone that stands up to them. They say they do this in the name of Allah, yet the Quran states that murder is wrong.

    It sounds odd to me because I know about these extremists trying to radicalise all these good and normal Muslims, yet somehow, even with all the praying they do and reading of the Quran they do, some will still become terrorists knowing full well that murder in their religion is wrong.

    Sorry if this didn't make too much sense, I just don't have enough time to write everything I felt like saying on this topic so I had to compact it all.

    I should probably apologise in advance if anything I have said turns out to be wrong and also in case anyone of the Islam religion is offended by this as from reading it back, it sounds a bit blunt to me.
    who told you islam opposses murder ?
    islams final prophet had numerous people killed in order to establish islam and all the next caliphates murdered perhaps millions in order to establish islamic states - these men are revered in islam
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    (Original post by mud4554r)
    Killing innocent people is a grave sin in Islam. It is as if they have killed the whole of mankind. When the muslims had to go to war during Muhammed's time, Muhammed never wanted to fight unless there was absolutely no other choice.
    says who? oh yes the muslims.
    how about asking all the non muslims he attacked -- oh wait you cant they were all killed before they could write any record of his 'greatness'
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    who told you islam opposses murder ?
    islams final prophet had numerous people killed in order to establish islam and all the next caliphates murdered perhaps millions in order to establish islamic states - these men are revered in islam
    Who told you it doesn't?
 
 
 
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