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Do you hate Indians or Pakistanis?
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i love blazinsquad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111113%&"!£!
Let me declare this upfront: too many people have a visceral and unfair dislike of all things American. However, the most vicious dislike is to be found among Continental Europeans, particularly from German-Speaking countries. I find their self-righteousness quite unbearable. UK people generally like Americans, altho' the Guardian crowd is a bit different.
Now: having said that, let's keep in mind that there's a bit of a difference between slagging off Americans and Indians and Pakistanis. This is a difference in practice, and not a difference in theory. Theoretically the point that this thread makes is valid. But in practice, there's a chalk and cheese difference because of the vast status difference between Americans who live here and Indians and Pakistanis who do.
Americans run the show in the UK. Americans who did not complete their PhD at a US university get hired as associates by the London offices of I-banks for technical analysis jobs, whereas Brits who did complete a PhD get hired as senior analysts. I have seen this with my own eyes. Americans get paid more than their European counterparts. Americans run the tube, many financial and academic institutions etc. Undoubtedly many of these appointments are on merit. But Europe is a well-educated place with some significant advantages of its own- and in some areas (public transport, education up to the undergraduate level) does better than the US. So there is a sort of worship of all things American by the New Labour crowd that extends to areas where America itself does not have an enviable record.
Hence the resentment of UK people against Americans is the kind of resentment that I feel toward my boss. For me to make jokes about him would, I suspect, be a form of release, but for him to make fun of me would be merely cruel.
By contrast, Indians and Pakistanis (esp. the latter) have a much lower social status in the UK. The same goes for Eastern Europeans. All these countries have a huge amount of human talent- more than the US- but British people generally see them as spongers, asylum seekers and the like.
The same thing applies to Jews. When people have faced the possibility of actual physical extinction (the Jews) or daily threats of racial violence and abuse (ethnic people and immigrants in many areas today) that does take things to an entirely different level. Even if many ethnic people do fine thank you, I think you'll find it hard to come up with too many people who say that they haven't at one time or other been abused or assaulted because of their skin colour. Just the other weekend, the Observer ran an article on the (White) widow of a mixed-race man beaten to death outside a Brighton nightclub and how the assailants walked the streets freely and laughed at her and mocked her when she encountered them. Doesn't happen to the rich Americans living in Earls Court, Knightsbridge, Chelsea etc....or even American students. If an American were beaten to death in the UK or Europe simply for being American, it would be headline news.
The status of Americans in the world today, and the UK, especially is actually extremely privileged. This, I suspect, is the reason why many people don't get outraged by "do you hate Americans" threads, but might by "do you hate Indians" or "do you hate Blacks " or "do you hate Jews"- you simply cannot ignore the reality to which people are responding.
Now: having said that, let's keep in mind that there's a bit of a difference between slagging off Americans and Indians and Pakistanis. This is a difference in practice, and not a difference in theory. Theoretically the point that this thread makes is valid. But in practice, there's a chalk and cheese difference because of the vast status difference between Americans who live here and Indians and Pakistanis who do.
Americans run the show in the UK. Americans who did not complete their PhD at a US university get hired as associates by the London offices of I-banks for technical analysis jobs, whereas Brits who did complete a PhD get hired as senior analysts. I have seen this with my own eyes. Americans get paid more than their European counterparts. Americans run the tube, many financial and academic institutions etc. Undoubtedly many of these appointments are on merit. But Europe is a well-educated place with some significant advantages of its own- and in some areas (public transport, education up to the undergraduate level) does better than the US. So there is a sort of worship of all things American by the New Labour crowd that extends to areas where America itself does not have an enviable record.
Hence the resentment of UK people against Americans is the kind of resentment that I feel toward my boss. For me to make jokes about him would, I suspect, be a form of release, but for him to make fun of me would be merely cruel.
By contrast, Indians and Pakistanis (esp. the latter) have a much lower social status in the UK. The same goes for Eastern Europeans. All these countries have a huge amount of human talent- more than the US- but British people generally see them as spongers, asylum seekers and the like.
The same thing applies to Jews. When people have faced the possibility of actual physical extinction (the Jews) or daily threats of racial violence and abuse (ethnic people and immigrants in many areas today) that does take things to an entirely different level. Even if many ethnic people do fine thank you, I think you'll find it hard to come up with too many people who say that they haven't at one time or other been abused or assaulted because of their skin colour. Just the other weekend, the Observer ran an article on the (White) widow of a mixed-race man beaten to death outside a Brighton nightclub and how the assailants walked the streets freely and laughed at her and mocked her when she encountered them. Doesn't happen to the rich Americans living in Earls Court, Knightsbridge, Chelsea etc....or even American students. If an American were beaten to death in the UK or Europe simply for being American, it would be headline news.
The status of Americans in the world today, and the UK, especially is actually extremely privileged. This, I suspect, is the reason why many people don't get outraged by "do you hate Americans" threads, but might by "do you hate Indians" or "do you hate Blacks " or "do you hate Jews"- you simply cannot ignore the reality to which people are responding.
randdom
It isn't what they do. I have seen numerous news reports about the bombings that Isreal carry out which are "targeted" they do hit their target but civilians are killed at the same time.
bombings? the Israelis use gunships, tanks and land troops. as i mentioned, the two latest attacks killed noone but the intended target.
I'm a Pakistani! And proud to be one! 
Its not right to be saying that you hate 'Americans' - that's being racist.
I personally HATE the American Government (BUSH IN PARTICULAR!!!
)for the actions they've taken against the middle eastern countries - but i don't hate Americans. There are some very nice people in this world, many of them are americans, so its wrong to generalise and say that you hate all americans.
Its not right to be saying that you hate 'Americans' - that's being racist.
I personally HATE the American Government (BUSH IN PARTICULAR!!!
)for the actions they've taken against the middle eastern countries - but i don't hate Americans. There are some very nice people in this world, many of them are americans, so its wrong to generalise and say that you hate all americans.sshah
I'm a Pakistani! And proud to be one!
Its not right to be saying that you hate 'Americans' - that's being racist.
I personally HATE the American Government (BUSH IN PARTICULAR!!! )for the actions they've taken against the middle eastern countries - but i don't hate Americans. There are some very nice people in this world, many of them are americans, so its wrong to generalise and say that you hate all americans.
Its not right to be saying that you hate 'Americans' - that's being racist.
I personally HATE the American Government (BUSH IN PARTICULAR!!!
)for the actions they've taken against the middle eastern countries - but i don't hate Americans. There are some very nice people in this world, many of them are americans, so its wrong to generalise and say that you hate all americans.why would you hate the US for trying to bring reform and freedom to the middle east? naive and ambitious, but why hate them for it?
vienna95
why would you hate the US for trying to bring reform and freedom to the middle east? naive and ambitious, but why hate them for it?
I'm sorry, but it seems to me as though the media has taken over your mind as well as vision... Do you know that the Americans have killed more innocent children in Iraq, than Sadam Hussein ever did during his reign!
I was completely against America going to war with Iraq, still am, and will always be!
vienna95
why would you hate the US for trying to bring reform and freedom to the middle east? naive and ambitious, but why hate them for it?
ah the idea that america knows best, of course she does
BIDDLESTICKS
Now: having said that, let's keep in mind that there's a bit of a difference between slagging off Americans and Indians and Pakistanis. This is a difference in practice, and not a difference in theory. Theoretically the point that this thread makes is valid. But in practice, there's a chalk and cheese difference because of the vast status difference between Americans who live here and Indians and Pakistanis who do.
Now: having said that, let's keep in mind that there's a bit of a difference between slagging off Americans and Indians and Pakistanis. This is a difference in practice, and not a difference in theory. Theoretically the point that this thread makes is valid. But in practice, there's a chalk and cheese difference because of the vast status difference between Americans who live here and Indians and Pakistanis who do.
If american foreign policy is bad for the world it deserves to be critised, the same applies to pakistani and indian foreign policy, however given the fact that american actions results in much more messes in the world than its hardly suprising that they are critised for it
sshah
I'm sorry, but it seems to me as though the media has taken over your mind as well as vision... Do you know that the Americans have killed more innocent children in Iraq, than Sadam Hussein ever did during his reign!
I was completely against America going to war with Iraq, still am, and will always be!
I was completely against America going to war with Iraq, still am, and will always be!
i) the media 'view' differs greatly from mine. i certainly treat it with a great deal of contempt as my posts testify.
ii) my post made no suggestion that i agreed with the action rather the motive
iii) more children have died in a month under the Saddam regime than they have since the US liberated Iraq
iv) you seem to be so sure of your future opinion, perhaps i should be the one talking of blind support
v) you didnt even attempt to acknowledge my post or question.
Speciez99
If american foreign policy is bad for the world it deserves to be critised, the same applies to pakistani and indian foreign policy, however given the fact that american actions results in much more messes in the world than its hardly suprising that they are critised for it
i was unaware that WW2, Israel and the USSR were messes created by the US.
vienna95
answer the question
reform and greater religious freedom might well be good for the middle east however that does not necessarily mean that the american style democracy they are exporting is the best or more importantly the best for now, and even if we agreed that it was the things the americans are putting forward now are the best it doesnt mean that america is implementing it in the right way
it is the americans once again deciding for other nations what is best and i dont always think that the native population is the foremost interest in america's mind
vienna95
i was unaware that WW2, Israel and the USSR were messes created by the US.
so you were aware that vietnam, cuba, the philiphines and chile were?
vienna95
iii) more children have died in a month under the Saddam regime than they have since the US liberated Iraq
iii) more children have died in a month under the Saddam regime than they have since the US liberated Iraq
Madeline Albright was one of the architects of U.S. foreign policy against Iraq during the 1990s. In an interview with Leslie Stahl of CBS on May 11, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright was asked whether the over half a million children killed by the sanctions were "worth it." Her response was: "It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it."
Speciez99
reform and greater religious freedom might well be good for the middle east however that does not necessarily mean that the american style democracy they are exporting is the best or more importantly the best for now, and even if we agreed that it was the things the americans are putting forward now are the best it doesnt mean that america is implementing it in the right way
it is the americans once again deciding for other nations what is best and i dont always think that the native population is the foremost interest in america's mind
it is the americans once again deciding for other nations what is best and i dont always think that the native population is the foremost interest in america's mind
it might not be flawless, but who else but the worlds superpower, itself threatened by the instability of the region, can try? again, what exactly is there to hate or dislike even if you dont agree? you might not see it working, but you should hope it does.
vienna95
it might not be flawless, but who else but the worlds superpower, itself threatened by the instability of the region, can try? again, what exactly is there to hate or dislike even if you dont agree? you might not see it working, but you should hope it does.
i do hope it does believe me, i can think of nothing worse that iraq having a civil war which is what will happen if the americans fail, however that doesnt necessarily mean i agree with what they have done and the way they have gone about it, i certainly dont think what they have done is the only thing they could of done and waiting for UN support which may have taken a year would of been a better move
the move to democracy is a slow one i think and the i think only when islam becomes less dominant with time as the assess to infomation opens these countries up will democracy suceed
Speciez99
Madeline Albright was one of the architects of U.S. foreign policy against Iraq during the 1990s. In an interview with Leslie Stahl of CBS on May 11, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright was asked whether the over half a million children killed by the sanctions were "worth it." Her response was: "It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it."
http://www.zpub.com/un/un-ma.html
what point are you challenging? this was a pre-war decision, with pre-war consequence. those children died as a result of Saddam, a sanction is there for a reason as the UN and its oil for food program would stress and which you conveniently forget to mention.
vienna95
why would you hate the US for trying to bring reform and freedom to the middle east? naive and ambitious, but why hate them for it?
Because they were NOT the real reasons for going to war in the first place. Iraq was no breeding ground for terrorists, Bin Laden HATED Saddam, and the real reasons were:
i) Dick Cheney and most of the US Cabinet having vested interest in an invasion and the business opportunties that would arise.
ii) GWB's personal agenda against Saddam-essentially wanting to finish his fathers work.
See these useful resources:
http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2002/media/saddam.mpg
http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/031703.asp
http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2002/091402.asp
The whole democracy thing was a front to appease flag waving democracy loving "patriots" such as yourself. The real reasons are for all to see, but you'll only understand if you want to.
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