Salary queries.

Fluffy

As an international, you can't stay in the UK for specialist training anymore - recent high court ruling... We'll you can apply for jobs, but only if there are no suitable home or EU candidates...

oh - well- that sucks!

anyways - the f1 and F2 years are still allowed right?

Reply 42

drsnoopy1885

Fluffy, I'll prob be taking out a loan from HSBC of about £20,000. As for life insurance last year my friend got a PSL from HSBC for grad med and they said they didn't want life insurance, think the year before they did but last yr they said they didn't ask for it anymore.

In total or PA? Are you working at the mo - you will only get that amount if you are and only for your first year (you can apply for up to your income in the preceeding year, else it is capped at £5k pa plus fees plus 'random expenses' i.e. pc, equiptment, etc). And HSBC DEFINITELY require you to take out the insurance...

Reply 43

breadnbutter

oh - well- that sucks!

anyways - the f1 and F2 years are still allowed right?

Yes, but the problem is that although our ST programme is recognised in almost every country, our foundation programme is not. Therefore internationals might find themselves with a qualification which isn't recognised in their home country, and unable to practice medicine...

Reply 44

Fluffy

Yes, but the problem is that although our ST programme is recognised in almost every country, our foundation programme is not. Therefore internationals might find themselves with a qualification which isn't recognised in their home country, and unable to practice medicine...

oh - well - thanks for the info - that helped a lot....

Reply 45

breadnbutter

oh - well - thanks for the info - that helped a lot....

Here's a little more info: http://www.medical-student.co.uk/IMS/

Reply 46

Fluffy

Here's a little more info: http://www.medical-student.co.uk/IMS/

thanks

unfortunately , now it seems i can only go for INDIA or the US - but im sooo confused and dont know what to chose.

an MBBS in india and then an MD in the US or a pre-med course and then MD in the US? :frown:

are there any known adv/disadvantages to either?

i know this is going really off-topic (sorry :redface:

)

Reply 47

breadnbutter

thanks

unfortunately , now it seems i can only go for INDIA or the US - but im sooo confused and dont know what to chose.

an MBBS in india and then an MD in the US or a pre-med course and then MD in the US? :frown:

are there any known adv/disadvantages to either?

i know this is going really off-topic (sorry :redface:

)

As you have already said, medicine is a graduate degree in the US, so you would need to do a bachelors first.

Is there anyway you can get UK/EU residence? Doing so then working for 3 years before applying might be a better option than going stateside...

Reply 48

Fluffy

As you have already said, medicine is a graduate degree in the US, so you would need to do a bachelors first.

Is there anyway you can get UK/EU residence? Doing so then working for 3 years before applying might be a better option than going stateside...

taking a 3 year gap is just not an option for me and even if i did - i dont think i cud get UK residence

i was so set on studying in the UK that i didnt even do any research about medicine in the US/INDIA :frown:

one thing still confuses me though , is the MD degree in US higher than an MBChB degree elsewhere, or are they both the same - but just have different names? :confused:

Reply 49

an MD from America will be respected just about anywhere in the world. Equally a UK MBChB would be. Don't really know about Indian degrees - sorry.

The MBChB is the same as the US/rest of the world MD. For some reason all commonwealth countries give out MBChB/MBBS type degrees, where as the rest of the world seems to give out MDs

Reply 50

breadnbutter

taking a 3 year gap is just not an option for me and even if i did - i dont think i cud get UK residence

i was so set on studying in the UK that i didnt even do any research about medicine in the US/INDIA :frown:

one thing still confuses me though , is the MD degree in US higher than an MBChB degree elsewhere, or are they both the same - but just have different names? :confused:

No a US MD is equivalent to a UK MBBS (or any other term used in the UK - BM, MBBCh, BMBChit, BM5, etc). In the UK an MD is the name given to a 'mini' PhD.

Reply 51

rozzy

What does MD stand for in the UK? Is it the same as the states, doctor of medicine? How would someone go on to get an MD in the UK, if they're already graduating with an MBBS or equivalent?

I thought a 'mini' PhD was a MPhil, when you haven't passed or something to be able to carry on to a PhD so are awarded an MPhil?

Reply 52

Philosoraptor

18

I thought it was Medicinae Doctor or something like that. If you get very high marks, can't you get M.D. from Oxbridge or something like that?(in the Uk I mean)

Reply 53

Yeah MD in UK is short for the latin equivalent of "doctor of medicine" - medicinae doctor or something similar.

It's a mini PhD in that it normally takes 2 years to complete, where as a PhD takes three years. Also, I don't think the research has to be totally original as it does with a PhD.

You can also do master's in medically related subjects, e.g. MSc which only take one year normally.

If you try to do a PhD and the university decide when you present your thesis that it isn't good enough, they often award an MPhil as a sort of consolation prize

EDIT - you go on to get an MD by enrolling at a university to do it once you've graduated from medicine

Reply 54

Philosoraptor

I thought it was Medicinae Doctor or something like that. If you get very high marks, can't you get M.D. from Oxbridge or something like that?(in the Uk I mean)

No - an MD is a totally separate qualification in the UK - it is a mini PhD - the majority actually now take nearer 3 years to complete (although some still work around hte 2 year model), which brings them in line with the new direction towards 4 year PhDs/D.Phil, as being pushed for by the research councils (the first year is a generic 'skills' year, consisting of 2 or 3 small projects, one of shich usually leads on to the main PhD for years 2-4).

Johnny C.

If you try to do a PhD and the university decide when you present your thesis that it isn't good enough, they often award an MPhil as a sort of consolation prize

An M.Phil ISN'T a consollation prize - where issued they still require a lot of work, the thesis often has to be rewritten to the relevant masters guidelines for that university. It is not always a M.Phil that is offered either (as you would know if you didn't get all your info from wikipaedia! :wink:

). In some universities an M.Phil is a primary qualification, not a secondary failed PhD booby prize!

If a thesis is deemed as not of suffieict quality or quantity to justify tghe award of a PhD/D.Phil there are usually 4 courses of redress a thesis panel can suggest:
1) Immediate withdrawal of the student with NO QUALIFICATION what so ever to show
2) Rewrite to masters level - usually a sign of not enough data and no realistic chance of getting here.
3) BAck to the lab to gather more data.
4) A thesis rewrite.

For 2-4 you then have to submit a new thesis, and go through the viva - corrections - reprint with any corrections - submit cycle.

Reply 55

Philosoraptor

18

PhD euuh *shudders*. I'm never going to ask to go on the MB PhD programme, methinks now :p:

Reply 56

Fluffy

An M.Phil ISN'T a consollation prize - where issued they still require a lot of work, the thesis often has to be rewritten to the relevant masters guidelines for that university. It is not always a M.Phil that is offered either (as you would know if you didn't get all your info from wikipaedia! :wink:

). In some universities an M.Phil is a primary qualification, not a secondary failed PhD booby prize!

While I do get a lot of info from wikipedia, this particular stuff came from my old latin teacher, who got a MPhil for her thesis instead of a PhD. Needless to say, she was very bitter about the whole thing and certainly saw the M.Phil as a runner-up prize.

Reply 57

Johnny C.

While I do get a lot of info from wikipedia, this particular stuff came from my old latin teacher, who got a MPhil for her thesis instead of a PhD. Needless to say, she was very bitter about the whole thing and certainly saw the M.Phil as a runner-up prize.

Oh it most definitely isn't something positive - it means at time of viva you are not good enough for a doctorate but more cuttingly that your examiners do not think you ever will be - but don't go telling people that everyone with an M.Phil is a failed doctoral candidate, as that really isn't so.

Reply 58

Didn't I say in my post that you could get a Master's degrees and that they normally take one year. I gave the example of an MSc but implied was that you could get a master's in any area. I never said that an MPhil is given exclusively to failed PhD candidates. Sorry for any confusion

Reply 59

rozzy