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Tories preparing to unleash dirty tricks plot if Jeremy Corbyn is elected Labour lead watch

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    Because they can't act like civil politicians, nope, they're scared that Jeremy Corbyn is going to actually challenge them and stand up for people

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...tricks-6421528

    Here are a couple of quotes:

    "A Tory source said Project Islington was dreamed up at Conservative Campaign HQ after a shock poll revealed Mr Corbyn’s huge lead in the race."

    "Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has been lined up as attack-dog-in-chief following his slating of Ed Miliband during the general election."
    (sums up their thinking style)


    But of course Corbyn is decent and doesn't get involved with such negativity and bitterness

    "But he was defiant as he tweeted: “Looking forward to 99th and final campaign event in Islington this evening where we’ll thank everyone.”


    I know everyone's going around saying they want Corbyn to win because then no one will vote labour, but thanks to Corbyn there's been new found vigour and support for labour, because he doesn't sit in a box that conservatives have crafted for all the other labour politicians, and now people have someone to vote for where they didn't before. The only way labour will become unelectable is if attack-dog-in-chief bites hard

    Moving to the left is the answer, moving away from cuts and the austerity agenda is the answer, not only because Scotland voted SNP, but because so many people in England were saying how they wished they could vote SNP too






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    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)
    Because they can't act like civil politicians, nope, they're scared that Jeremy Corbyn is going to actually challenge them and stand up for people
    It's a bit ironic to say Corbyn is some kind of civil politician, he's demanded that other politicians be arrested where they have policy differences.

    By Corbyn "actually challenging them", what you mean to say is that he will ineffectually rail at them, fail to win power and thus fail to challenge them in the way that actually matters.

    If Corbyn is completely incapable of getting into power, then it's a joke to claim that he is in any way standing up to or challenging the Tories. The Tories welcome the Corbyn victory with open arms because they know how vulnerable he is.

    And he and his supporters will have brought this on themselves. Corbyn has said so many stupid, bigoted things and he has associated with so many fascists that his political credibility is nil. He will not be able to achieve anything.
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    Do you have any sources other than the mirror, after all, they would blame the rain on the tories if they could. We have no reason to do anything but try to keep him as leader, after all, all he will do is hand us the election on a silver platter and make the war chest grow even larger.

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    So politicians will be doing politics. What else is new?
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    (Original post by SignFromDog)
    It's a bit ironic to say Corbyn is some kind of civil politician, he's demanded that other politicians be arrested where they have policy differences.

    By Corbyn "actually challenging them", what you mean to say is that he will ineffectually rail at them, fail to win power and thus fail to challenge them in the way that actually matters.

    If Corbyn is completely incapable of getting into power, then it's a joke to claim that he is in any way standing up to or challenging the Tories. The Tories welcome the Corbyn victory with open arms because they know how vulnerable he is.

    And he and his supporters will have brought this on themselves. Corbyn has said so many stupid, bigoted things and he has associated with so many fascists that his political credibility is nil. He will not be able to achieve anything.
    He's said that the purveyors of the Iraq war should be tried IF and only if the Chilcot report finds them to be guilty of war crimes. That is completely different to advocating arresting people with policy differences. And I think you're fully aware that it's different, you're just deliberately conflating the two to paint someone you don't like as an extremist. How cheap.

    You're right that a lot of obnoxious Tory "journalists" like Toby Young are jeering about him winning, but the party hierarchy itself, I'm afraid to inform you, are most worried. Why else would they be sending their press officers to spy on their opponent?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...r-flee-6406464

    I really hope you realise that no one actually cares about foreign policy.
    The only thing people get upset about is illegal foreign wars, but apart from that very few people consider it a top issue. And if they did, they would assuredly be against arming extremist dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, as this far-right government continues to do.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    He's said that the purveyors of the Iraq war should be tried IF and only if the Chilcot report finds them to be guilty of war crimes. That is completely different to advocating arresting people with policy differences. And I think you're fully aware that it's different, you're just deliberately conflating the two to paint someone you don't like as an extremist. How cheap.

    You're right that a lot of obnoxious Tory "journalists" like Toby Young are jeering about him winning, but the party hierarchy itself, I'm afraid to inform you, are most worried. Why else would they be sending their press officers to spy on their opponent?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...r-flee-6406464

    I really hope you realise that no one actually cares about foreign policy.
    The only thing people get upset about is illegal foreign wars, but apart from that very few people consider it a top issue. And if they did, they would assuredly be against arming extremist dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, as this far-right government continues to do.
    Again with the mirror, is this too so *******s that even the guardian refuses to write about it?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Do you have any sources other than the mirror, after all, they would blame the rain on the tories if they could. We have no reason to do anything but try to keep him as leader, after all, all he will do is hand us the election on a silver platter and make the war chest grow even larger.

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    I know this isn't hugely important, but that comment about the Mirror blaming the Tories for the rain is really quite rich considering how absurd and unprincipled the Tory press are in their smears, I would argue far beyond anything you could compare the Mirror to.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Again with the mirror, is this too so *******s that even the guardian refuses to write about it?

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    Yes, there is absolutely a Guardian article about it:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...y-corbyn-rally

    And even one from the far-right Spectator blog - is that good enough for you?:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpi...-corbyn-rally/

    Oh, and please don't ignore everything I said in favour of criticising the site of the link I posted. It really makes you look like you don't have anything intellectual or meaningful to say.
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    I can envision a repeat of the gunpowder plot but with more shouting.
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    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)

    Moving to the left is the answer, moving away from cuts and the austerity agenda is the answer, not only because Scotland voted SNP, but because so many people in England were saying how they wished they could vote SNP too
    People in England ignorant of the fact that the SNP spent years demonising the English electorate in order to break up the UK.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    I know this isn't hugely important, but that comment about the Mirror blaming the Tories for the rain is really quite rich considering how absurd and unprincipled the Tory press are in their smears, I would argue far beyond anything you could compare the Mirror to.
    Hmm. Please educate me: what is this 'Tory press' you refer too? Is that just your term for newspapers that support Tory policies or are you one of the shrill the-election-was-won-by-propaganda brigade?

    Also, your argument that two wrongs make a right is just bursting with logic...
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Do you have any sources other than the mirror, after all, they would blame the rain on the tories if they could. We have no reason to do anything but try to keep him as leader, after all, all he will do is hand us the election on a silver platter and make the war chest grow even larger.

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    On what basis do you make this assumption?, there is nowt but tory media tripe to suggest this theory that Corbyn can not win an election, of course he will never appeal to conservative voters because many of them represent the highest earners in the country whilst the rest have been misguided by the press. To add to this comment papers such as the Sun and telegraph support tories because they cut tax for businesses all of the time and balance it against the poor. It's typical of the tories to go to there press editor and owner friends such as Coulson and Murdoch to go and scaremonger voters away from Jeremy Corbyn , If there is one thing that the tories are scared of it is working class champions or MP's . So what makes you think that Corbyn will lose. Just because he will enforce more tax on the very richest people and vows to reverse austerity cuts and cuts in public spending which actually nets us more debt. It is unlikely he will get a majority in my opinion but will win more seats then Miliband.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Hmm. Please educate me: what is this 'Tory press' you refer too? Is that just your term for newspapers that support Tory policies or are you one of the shrill the-election-was-won-by-propaganda brigade?

    Also, your argument that two wrongs make a right is just bursting with logic...
    The 'Tory press' is the portion of media in this country which is openly biased towards the Conservative party. That's a very simple question to answer.

    And yes, I would consider myself to be partially a member of that shrill brigade.

    According to a survey, 1 in 4 people who voted this year, made their decision based on the overall message they got from the media. Is that not evidence of the Tories having an unfair advantage due to their media support?
    And just by examining how their increase in polling coincided with the launch of SNP fear mongering campaign, I consider it a closed debate - the right-wing press gave them an unfair advantage.

    Oh, and speaking of that fear campaign, it really was full of integrity and high-quality debate, wasn't it? Remember that big billboard with the photoshopped image of Alex Samond stealing from someone's wallet? Real clean campaigning on the part of the CON party there.

    Oh, and take it from analysts if you won't take it from me:

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/gre...bands-downfall


    As for your second point, I never said or implied that the two wrongs of the situation make it right. I was merely pointing out that gentleman's hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)
    Because they can't act like civil politicians, nope, they're scared that Jeremy Corbyn is going to actually challenge them and stand up for people
    I don't see what's uncivil about attacking the views and positions of a politician, particularly when they're quite extreme views. Why would anyone possibly think another party wouldn't be doing this?

    But of course Corbyn is decent and doesn't get involved with such negativity and bitterness
    Yes, I'm sure Jeremy Corbyn doesn't plan to be negative about the record of the Conservative government at all.

    Moving to the left is the answer, moving away from cuts and the austerity agenda is the answer, not only because Scotland voted SNP, but because so many people in England were saying how they wished they could vote SNP too
    The SNP are not a particularly left-wing party. They've won elections from the centre-ground, with centre-right economic policies: what differentiates them from Labour is nationalism.

    A left-wing Labour Party will not win more support in Scotland and will likely offend against many of remaining supporters - do not forget Labour's only remaining seat in Scotland is wealthy, middle class Edinburgh South. In the Scottish Parliament elections next year, I suspect they same will be true - holding a couple of their middle class seats and losing their working class ones.

    I do not write off Corbyn's chances in England entirely, but no-one has yet to answer the point that shifting to the left for 2010 saw Labour lose and the Tories win. It'd be peculiar to try to fix that by moving more to the left, as if people were voting Tory out of a feeling that Labour weren't left-wing enough.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    You're right that a lot of obnoxious Tory "journalists" like Toby Young are jeering about him winning, but the party hierarchy itself, I'm afraid to inform you, are most worried. Why else would they be sending their press officers to spy on their opponent?
    Um, because that's what political parties do all the time? Trying to dig some dirt on the main party of opposition doesn't show you're remotely worried about them, it shows that you're wanting to beat them - and beat them as well as you can.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    He's said that the purveyors of the Iraq war should be tried IF and only if the Chilcot report finds them to be guilty of war crimes.
    If he said that then he's a complete moron. The Chilcot enquiry is not going to find them guilty of war crimes because it's not a court of law. Even if Chilcot wanted to he wouldn't have the ability to do so. And the hope that it would demonstrates a laughable ignorance of the definition of a war crime.

    A war crime is a massacre or similar action. Nobody has ever indicated a particular massacre, or killing of prisoners of war, or rape of civilians, that Blair has ordered? Can you tell me any? What massacre or killing of prisoners or rape did Blair order?

    You (like most leftists) confuse the concept of a war crime and a crime of aggression. On the latter question the Prime Minister could not be pursued for this as the ICC did not possess jurisdiction for a crime of aggression prior to 2010.

    And what about parliament? Parliament voted in favour of the Iraq War. Is it Corbyn's position that anyone who didn't vote with him in that vote should also be arrested? The obsession with Blair and "sending him to the Hague" as idiots like to say merely tells us that they have a childish obsession with identifying a villain, an evildoer, into whom they can pour all their frustrations and repose all their puerile beliefs about conspriacies and so on.

    And Blair is not the only one. Corbyn also called for Tzipi Livni to be arrested. Notably, he made no call for Hamas leaders to be arrested even though their war crimes are beyond dispute (deliberately firing rockets at civilian areas without even a putative military target). In calling for Livni (who is widely known as a moderate in Israel and someone seeking a peace deal with the Palestinians) arrest, Corbyn shows how hypocritical and biased he is.

    And ultimately, he shows us that he is a totalitarian thug who demands that those who supported a different policy should be arrested. He is going to be shredded by the Tories, and I'm going to enjoy watching it happen

    So why don't you tell us, in specific legal terms, what crime Blair could be guilty of? What offence under international law could Blair even be brought up on? What crime do you believe the Chilcot inquiry might find he committed? You won't be able to say because there are none, and the degree to which legal ignoramuses on the left keep whittering on about this is embarrassing.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    I really hope you realise that no one actually cares about foreign policy..
    If no-one actually cares about foreign policy, why are you people obsessed with it?

    In any case, while people might not ordinarily care much about foreign policy, they will care about Corbyn associating with terrorists and Islamist thugs His public hanging, drawing and quartering on that score hasn't even started yet
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    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)
    Because they can't act like civil politicians, nope, they're scared that Jeremy Corbyn is going to actually challenge them and stand up for people

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...tricks-6421528

    Here are a couple of quotes:

    "A Tory source said Project Islington was dreamed up at Conservative Campaign HQ after a shock poll revealed Mr Corbyn’s huge lead in the race."

    "Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has been lined up as attack-dog-in-chief following his slating of Ed Miliband during the general election."
    (sums up their thinking style)


    But of course Corbyn is decent and doesn't get involved with such negativity and bitterness

    "But he was defiant as he tweeted: “Looking forward to 99th and final campaign event in Islington this evening where we’ll thank everyone.”


    I know everyone's going around saying they want Corbyn to win because then no one will vote labour, but thanks to Corbyn there's been new found vigour and support for labour, because he doesn't sit in a box that conservatives have crafted for all the other labour politicians, and now people have someone to vote for where they didn't before. The only way labour will become unelectable is if attack-dog-in-chief bites hard

    Moving to the left is the answer, moving away from cuts and the austerity agenda is the answer, not only because Scotland voted SNP, but because so many people in England were saying how they wished they could vote SNP too
    They dont have to use dirty tricks, I am a labour supporter and am an advocate for a progressive society but the feeling i get from Corbyn is that he lives in a Utopia. He is very articulate in his words but his actual ideas are often misguided and will lead to the detriment of the labour party if elected.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    According to a survey, 1 in 4 people who voted this year, made their decision based on the overall message they got from the media. Is that not evidence of the Tories having an unfair advantage due to their media support?
    And just by examining how their increase in polling coincided with the launch of SNP fear mongering campaign, I consider it a closed debate - the right-wing press gave them an unfair advantage.
    The fact that you consider anything a closed debate is evidence that you're not worth arguing with for the simple reason that you're unwilling to change your mind if proven wrong. If you're still interested, there's a thread made by another leftist called Bornblue on this server called something like '2300 people die two weeks after being declared fit for work' where I pulled apart this logic that the media had a disproportionate effect on the actual vote counts.

    Briefly, from the list provided by Bornblue, there were 2.75 Tory-supporting newspapers for every left-wing newspaper (I suggest not trying to make your figures credible by calling the Guardian a Lib Dem newspaper - it won't work) and yet only 1.2 Tory voters for every Labour voter - a negligible effect that disproved his assertion that the election was decided by the so-called Tory monopoly on press but he was too good to admit that and quickly moved the goalposts to avoid having to concede the point).

    Oh, and speaking of that fear campaign, it really was full of integrity and high-quality debate, wasn't it? Remember that big billboard with the photoshopped image of Alex Samond stealing from someone's wallet? Real clean campaigning on the part of the CON party there.
    It's politics. Any position that requires people to like you more than the other guy will naturally evolve into what you call a 'fear campaign.' 'Integrity and high-quality debate' does not win elections, whether you like it or not. People are attracted to style rather than substance (not to say that the Tories didn't have substance) and that is the way it is. I don't like it either but I don't go around making up bull**** about how the electorate must have been brainwashed if they make a decision I don't like (remember 2005? Yeah, I bet you don't). It reminds me of an article in the Guardian the day after the election, where one of the first sentences was something like 'the electorate is evil.'

    I do suggest that you stop asserting that the electorate is too stupid to have made a decision that you disagree with it having to do with propaganda. This so-called Tory monopoly on the press was also there in 2005, when Labour won what would now be considered a landslide majority with a smaller share of the vote than the Tories in 2015. I don't see you complaining about that, not that it detracts from the woeful problems of our voting system.

    Oh, and take it from analysts if you won't take it from me:

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/gre...bands-downfall


    As for your second point, I never said or implied that the two wrongs of the situation make it right. I was merely pointing out that gentleman's hypocrisy.
    Right-wing media coverage... Pah. As I've said, people like style more than substance and Miliband had neither. Call it harsh but that's the way it is: you won't get anywhere in politics if you're not charismatic and photogenic (I thought the whole bacon sandwich thing was ridiculous but, again, most people don't think like that). Charisma is to politics what mathematics is to physics; you can't generally do the second without the first.

    Left-wing media could have done all the Miliband-bashing and he still would've lost. It can hardly be said that he would've got a landslide majority if the bacon sandwich incident hadn't occurred.
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    (Original post by StolenUsername)
    The 'Tory press' is the portion of media in this country which is openly biased towards the Conservative party. That's a very simple question to answer.

    And yes, I would consider myself to be partially a member of that shrill brigade.

    According to a survey, 1 in 4 people who voted this year, made their decision based on the overall message they got from the media. Is that not evidence of the Tories having an unfair advantage due to their media support?
    And just by examining how their increase in polling coincided with the launch of SNP fear mongering campaign, I consider it a closed debate - the right-wing press gave them an unfair advantage.

    Oh, and speaking of that fear campaign, it really was full of integrity and high-quality debate, wasn't it? Remember that big billboard with the photoshopped image of Alex Samond stealing from someone's wallet? Real clean campaigning on the part of the CON party there.

    Oh, and take it from analysts if you won't take it from me:

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/gre...bands-downfall


    As for your second point, I never said or implied that the two wrongs of the situation make it right. I was merely pointing out that gentleman's hypocrisy.
    Another Angry Voice..............urgh, Absolutely vile.
 
 
 
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