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    To prevent further debate/arguments between people ive requested for this thread to be deleted/closed. as i have acquired all the info i need

    Sorry but this wasnt intended for the debate on the validity of Islam however it did turn into that in the end, no ones fault but wrong section for it.
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    If you feel a faith is not right for you, stop following it. I'm not religious (though I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist) but I consider it more important to adhere to your own personal moral code than from dusty old tomes or thousand-year old laws.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real
    I'm not surprised. Modern education and science will mean that all religions will fall away in the west over the next fifty years or so. We have no need for mediaeval and ancient superstitious beliefs, introduced by warlords intent on control of their populations, to explain mysteries. We are advanced and knowledgeable enough now that either science can explain them or we are content for them to remain mysteries.

    No god worthy of the name will fail to see through an insincere "belief just in case" so you may as well cast away the last vestiges of your parents' superstitions.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Salam to all, i have a very big doubt thats killing me. After reading and looking at Richard Dawkins work and how evolution goes against the idea that 'God created man' and looking at how atheists have increased in numbers by so much since science is increasing, im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real, thats my only fear now literally the only reason. I want to ask, lets say i searched and im convinced that islam is wrong, but then it turns out to be true, will i go Hell? Can i say im justified because i searched and was not convinced? Theres so many problems with Islam that i cant get my head around it.

    -Sex Slaves
    -Masters having sex with their 'slaves' which can already be married
    -Too many sects and differences in belief
    -All miracles have no scientific proof or record-Quran is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted incorrectly so much

    I want to believe so much and not leave and upset Allah but theres just not enough to hold me closely to my deen. Or am i just in my doubt period? My Iman as a muslim sways too much
    Salam, brother you can pm me about this since I dont like debating on TSR, also you can post this on the ISOC and you will get very good advice.

    Sex Slaves are forbidden in Islam btw
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Salam to all, i have a very big doubt thats killing me. After reading and looking at Richard Dawkins work and how evolution goes against the idea that 'God created man' and looking at how atheists have increased in numbers by so much since science is increasing, im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real, thats my only fear now literally the only reason. I want to ask, lets say i searched and im convinced that islam is wrong, but then it turns out to be true, will i go Hell? Can i say im justified because i searched and was not convinced? Theres so many problems with Islam that i cant get my head around it.

    -Sex Slaves
    -Masters having sex with their 'slaves' which can already be married
    -Too many sects and differences in belief
    -All miracles have no scientific proof or record-Quran is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted incorrectly so much

    I want to believe so much and not leave and upset Allah but theres just not enough to hold me closely to my deen. Or am i just in my doubt period? My Iman as a muslim sways too much
    Wsalaam
    Read up on Islam further from Muslim sources (rather than say non Muslim sources which are "proving Islam wrong"). Ask questions from Muslims of knowledge. You still seem to have some sort of faith....so sincerely ask Allah to guide you and show you the straight path, and keep asking. After all that you will be better equipped to know whether Islam is right or not and whether you believe or not.
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    Sex Slaves are forbidden in Islam btw
    But not slaves, eh? Ordinary slavery is fine with Islam, and the great model for all human behaviour was himself a slave owner and trader.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But not slaves, eh? Ordinary slavery is fine with Islam, and the great model for all human behaviour was himself a slave owner and trader.
    no no, the slavery in islam is not that of 100 years ago.

    It has an incredible set of rules that justify it and the slave can be asked to go free, however i dont want to open a debating topic.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Salam to all, i have a very big doubt thats killing me. After reading and looking at Richard Dawkins work and how evolution goes against the idea that 'God created man' and looking at how atheists have increased in numbers by so much since science is increasing, im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real, thats my only fear now literally the only reason. I want to ask, lets say i searched and im convinced that islam is wrong, but then it turns out to be true, will i go Hell? Can i say im justified because i searched and was not convinced? Theres so many problems with Islam that i cant get my head around it.

    -Sex Slaves
    -Masters having sex with their 'slaves' which can already be married
    -Too many sects and differences in belief
    -All miracles have no scientific proof or record-Quran is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted incorrectly so much

    I want to believe so much and not leave and upset Allah but theres just not enough to hold me closely to my deen. Or am i just in my doubt period? My Iman as a muslim sways too much
    Following out of fear isn't very good imo and shows the scare tactics that religion must employ to keep followers. Surely by that logic you must also follow Christianity in case the Christian version of hell is true? And all religions that propose some sort of punishment in the hereafter?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But not slaves, eh? Ordinary slavery is fine with Islam, and the great model for all human behaviour was himself a slave owner and trader.
    Forcing someone to do things and not treating them right or paying them is not allowed bro. There is also no verse that encourages that in the Quran.

    The prophet also brought a slave from a corrupt owner who wasn't treating him well. The prophet then gave the slave food,shelter and freedom.


    The middle east at the time of the prophet was a period of time where slavery was allowed, however Islam came and then changed this .[*]Islam banned the mistreatment of slaves - indeed the tradition repeatedly stresses the importance of treating slaves with kindness and compassion Islam also allowed slaves to achieve their freedom and made freeing slaves a virtuous act.[*]
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    no no, the slavery in islam is not that of 100 years ago.

    It has an incredible set of rules that justify it and the slave can be asked to go free, however i dont want to open a debating topic.
    Your Islamic teachers have told you that, but it is (a) irrelevant that you treat the slave well if you keep him as a slave in the first place and (b) the slave could not demand freedom, only buy it. It doesn't sound so nice now, does it?

    In any event, no sensible slave owner ill-treats his slaves if he wants to get the best out of them over the longest period of time, and this applied to slave owners of the nineteenth century just as much as it did to Arabs in the ninth.
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    Forcing someone to do things and not treating them right or paying them is not allowed bro. There is also no verse that encourages that in the Quran.

    The prophet also brought a slave from a corrupt owner who wasn't treating him well. The prophet then gave the slave food,shelter and freedom.


    The middle east at the time of a prophet was a period of time where slavery was allowed, however Islam came and then changed this .[*]Islam banned the mistreatment of slaves - indeed the tradition repeatedly stresses the importance of treating slaves with kindness and compassion Islam also allowed slaves to achieve their freedom and made freeing slaves a virtuous act.[*]
    Apologist nonsense. Slaves had to buy their freedom, or have the owner decide to give it to them. They couldn't demand it for free. Islam did not ban slavery and, indeed, Islamic countries only banned it very late. It is still legal in some.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Following out of fear isn't very good imo and shows the scare tactics that religion must employ to keep followers. Surely by that logic you must also follow Christianity in case the Christian version of hell is true? And all religions that propose some sort of punishment in the hereafter?
    How is it "keeping followers" if the OP doesn't believe?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But not slaves, eh? Ordinary slavery is fine with Islam, and the great model for all human behaviour was himself a slave owner and trader.
    We are all in some form of servitude, one way or another.

    The only question is, to what extent or to what degree are we able to exercise our liberty...
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I'm not surprised. Modern education and science will mean that all religions will fall away in the west over the next fifty years or so. We have no need for mediaeval and ancient superstitious beliefs, introduced by warlords intent on control of their populations, to explain mysteries. We are advanced and knowledgeable enough now that either science can explain them or we are content for them to remain mysteries.

    No god worthy of the name will fail to see through an insincere "belief just in case" so you may as well cast away the last vestiges of your parents' superstitions.
    Science will become a "religion" in the sense that there will be differing scientists, all with their own followings, and all starting to set different standards.

    It's already started with Dawkins, Hawkings and the rest will follow.

    In your eagerness to prove that religion is incorrect, you are obliviously becoming a "religion"...
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    (Original post by Errm31)
    How is it "keeping followers" if the OP doesn't believe?
    I believe to an extent but i mean you look at someone who dismisses the idea of religion completely and their fine in life.

    My point is that there isnt enough info or evidence to make you completely firm in belief unless you mix some ignorance into it, as of now i believe it to be right but i do doubt it sometimes.
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    If you feel a faith is not right for you, stop following it. I'm not religious (though I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist) but I consider it more important to adhere to your own personal moral code than from dusty old tomes or thousand-year old laws.
    Then we obviously don't need Parliament? A centuries old tradition that actually dictates the legality of our views and helps to shape our own "personal moral code".

    Timing plays a factor, but has literally nothing to do with the validity of a belief.
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    I'm agnostic so I can understand the confusion you feel. I recently read a book called seeking allah finding jesus - it was very interesting and goes through alot of the main arguements that muslims use. Obviously the ending is abit bias but if its in your library it might be worth a flick as you'll relate to the authors troubles.
    I think fear of hell isnt healthy.. in the bible it says hell is being apart from god.. well it sounds to me that you are already apart from god in your heart.
    Research islam more, pray to Allah and if you do not find him then be honest to yourself and spend time not practising or thinking about it. You'll find the truth in yourself this way
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    (Original post by Errm31)
    Then we obviously don't need Parliament? A centuries old tradition that actually dictates the legality of our views and helps to shape our own "personal moral code".

    Timing plays a factor, but has literally nothing to do with the validity of a belief.
    Yes, but Parliament has checks and debates. The law changes and evolves. Religious beliefs, if they're taken literally from a text, don't.
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    (Original post by Hevachan)
    I'm agnostic so I can understand the confusion you feel. I recently read a book called seeking allah finding jesus - it was very interesting and goes through alot of the main arguements that muslims use. Obviously the ending is abit bias but if its in your library it might be worth a flick as you'll relate to the authors troubles.
    I think fear of hell isnt healthy.. in the bible it says hell is being apart from god.. well it sounds to me that you are already apart from god in your heart.
    Research islam more, pray to Allah and if you do not find him then be honest to yourself and spend time not practising or thinking about it. You'll find the truth in yourself this way
    Ill try to find the book then thanks alot the thing is that out of all the religions islam seems the most true to me but it has things that i cannot agree with like sharia law, why women are below men, 'dont take christians or jews as friends' so i can say i follow most of it but whats the point if its not complete? Thats my problem so you cant really say ur a muslim if you disregard certain aspects but as for the existence of a god im fairly certain exists.

    I like to take things into complete logic and this religion expects me to disregard some logic and just 'give in' to some ideas but ill keep searching for the truth, thanks alot
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    I believe to an extent but i mean you look at someone who dismisses the idea of religion completely and their fine in life.
    Could you elaborate on what "fine" entails?

    My point is that there isnt enough info or evidence to make you completely firm in belief unless you mix some ignorance into it, as of now i believe it to be right but i do doubt it sometimes.
    If you're looking for 100% evidence, then Science won't help you plug that gap due to it's very nature, it cannot possibly be 100% right.

    It's okay to have doubts sometimes. I've just been reading up a little and it seems that the Prophet Muhammad himself had doubts and God reassured him through this verse. (Quran 10:94).

    If you're hoping to replace Science with religion in your life, then you'll be swapping out one component for the whole machine. Science is not a belief system. It won't help you have faith or remain strong at times. It won't help you navigate life.
 
 
 
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