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Corbyn voted new labour leader.

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Reply 280

Synchyst

Original post by nulli tertius

You are

Tell me why.

Reply 281

somethingbeautiful

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

He's the left wing candidate standing on a strong anti Tory-austerity grassroots lead platform. It's actual alternative left wing stance as apposed to 'what the Tories are doing but a bit less horrible'. It's the sort of platform left wingers like but are scared of as it may well prove to be electoral suicide with the anti-austerity politics, getting rid of trident and non mainstream foriegn policy. Being Tories but a bit less horrible actually makes a world of difference to quite a lot of people. Plus I want to be able to own a house some day :frown:

Paul Mason (from Channel 4 News) sums up the different candidates here.

[video="youtube;PPZKKHQ_-Gk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPZKKHQ_-Gk[/video]

Also as an example of the grassroots led bit... You got any question you want to ask Cameron on Wednesday? :tongue:

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/what-would-you-like-to-ask-david-cameron-

Thanks! I see now what the controversy is about. I'll watch the vid.

Reply 282

Mister Morality

Original post by TimmonaPortella

The point is that your 'policies' mean nothing if you can't put them into effect. Nothing. The labour party is now pretty much the equivalent of an angry, scraggly old man in a pub ranting about how we should get rid of the monarchy. Principled, maybe, but completely irrelevant and also completely out of tune with the general population.

They're not irrelevant- it's a choice. A clear choice. You pick whether you want the UK to become a fascist/socialist state or a free country. Except those are no longer the options anymore. Your choice was consumerist corporatism who fight other people's wars vs. consumerist corporatism who fight other people's wars.

Why are you so politically tribal that it doesn't matter that Labour aren't Labour just because they're not Conservatives by name?

Reply 283

nulli tertius

Original post by Synchyst

Tell me why.

Because official electoral corruption (as opposed to corruption by the electorate eg vote early, vote often in NI or what has occurred in Tower Hamlets) requires the electoral process to be entirely in the hands of the corrupt or the corruptible and out of sight of the victims.

Really for historical reasons, our electoral process is very well protected against official corruption. Ballot papers are issued against a public register by local government officers working in at least pairs who whilst there is probably a left leaning majority will have substantial numbers of other party supporters in their ranks, and who are not dependent on political patronage for their jobs. Candidates' agents have limited access to the polling stations, but full access to the register of who has voted. Ballot boxes are sealed (if you have ever been in a polling station at 7AM you will be invited to inspect the inside of the ballot box before it is sealed). Ballot papers are counted in public in the presence of candidates and their agents.

To the extent there is a weakness it is postal voting but again the polling staff provide very good protection against official corruption when ballots are returned.

There have recently been enquiries into electoral fraud and there has been no suggestion of any official fraud. Indeed it is hard to find the last case of official fraud in a UK election.

In the UK official fraud seems limited to certain private elections; university societies, trades unions and political party branches.

Reply 284

xxvine

Anyone surprised Dan Jarvis and Stella Creasy according to the 'Daily Mail' do not what to be part of his cabinet.

Reply 285

Comeback

Original post by Snufkin

Corbyn's values do not = Labour values. There are a great many Labour supporters who think some or all of Corbyn's ideas are crazy. I'm a pragmatist, at the end of the day Labour need to win an election if they ever want to stop Tory policies and try to undo the damage they've done, and that isn't going to happen with Corbyn as leader. You're not much of a socialist if you value your political ideals more than the chance to help working people.

Socialism: "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

New Labour isn't really calling for the renationalisation of railways, or the reversal of privatisation of the NHS through the backdoor.

Therefore, I'd disagree (though I'm quite sure you're right Corbyn can't win).

Reply 286

username987675

Original post by Gears265

You claim to support tackling climate change yet you support a man who wants to reopen the coal mines and use it to drive an industrial revolution? Please enlighten me because Corbyn will only see CO2 emissions spike.

My own view is just leave coal alone. Corbyn however still doesn't have a view at odds however with climate change goals. He supports carbon capture and storage, which wouldn't cause a spike in CO2 emmissions at all. He also said if coal prices go up there may be a case to reopen coal mines - didn't say he would, only made clear he wouldn't rule it out. I don't think the green party would be supporting him if his policies were totally at odds with the environment...

Reply 287

picklescamp

I have just jointed the Labour party, as I said I would if Corbyn won :smile:

Reply 288

TimmonaPortella

Original post by Mister Morality

I'm so far from being a tribal Labour voter that I'm a Tory voter. I'm delighting in this. Many of us are. That ought at least to give you pause for thought.

I'm simply pointing out some problems with the approach the labour party is presently taking.

Original post by Midlander

So a one party Tory state ad infinitum then.

Well, no. Ad 2025, probably.

Reply 289

nulli tertius

Original post by TimmonaPortella

Well, no. Ad 2025, probably.

Yes, politics is cyclical because there is a talent cycle (although Cameron has tried to slow this down).

Governments burn through talent more quickly than they can replace it. In 5 years a government will burn through a number of ministerial careers. Most resigned/sacked ministers do not come back. However, it can only replace the talent pool with the number of vacancies in winnable seats at a general election. Not all new MPs elected will be suitable for ministerial office either politically or personally and elder statesmen who remain in the Commons are bed blockers.

Oppositions lose talent more slowly because their leading figures continue to harbour ambitions of office and by definition their talent pool has a one off replenishment because there is a big intake in the year the opposition wins power. Moreover because there are more opportunities the more centrist make their careers where the chances are greatest.

Reply 290

ChaoticButterfly

This sums up press reaction :tongue:

Reply 291

Aj12

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

This sums up press reaction :tongue:

They do share a taste in hats....

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 292

Midlander

Original post by TimmonaPortella

Well, no. Ad 2025, probably.

I've asked before of other people without success, but what is so objectionable about Corbyn's ideas? What makes him less electable than the Bullingdon Boys?

Reply 293

Midlander

Original post by xxvine

Anyone surprised Dan Jarvis and Stella Creasy according to the 'Daily Mail' do not what to be part of his cabinet.

I will believe that when I see them saying it rather than from a tabloid who has a vested interest in destabilising the Labour party.

Reply 294

Wattsy

It's just crazy when we call a guy unelectable because he wants to convince people of his point of view rather than try and get elected on the same principles as the Conservative party like Liz Kendall would have. Surely the best politicians should be able to persuade people to see their point of view rather than sell out and maintain a status quo which is personally unacceptable to them and quite apparently a not insignificant proportion of the electorate.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 295

ChaoticButterfly

Corbyn:

[video="youtube;uDXtVlG2VW0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXtVlG2VW0[/video]

Reply 296

CandyKoRn

I voted for him and I became a full member today.
It's gonna be messy though, with people leaving the party but with the huge amount of people joining labour since he was elected, I think it'll go well.
Unless he gets assassinated.