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Our new shadow chancellor - John McDonnell watch

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    Appointed by Corbyn.

    Said this.

    It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.

    I can't quite believe how insane the left wing have become in this country. Not only allied with Islamic extremism, but actually applauding the murder of British citizens by the IRA.
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    (Original post by LockheedS.)
    Appointed by Corbyn.

    Said this.




    I can't quite believe how insane the left wing have become in this country. Not only allied with Islamic extremism, but actually applauding the murder of British citizens by the IRA.
    Do you know how many Irish us Brits murdered during the first wars vs Ireland. We literally committed genocide vs the Catholic population and then tried to replace them with Protestant settlers. And don't play the religious hatred game because I am of Protestant faith. We created all the mess in Ireland and it still haunts us to this day.

    Don't be surprised if you get supporters of Irish patriots sticking up for their version of history. Terrorist/Freedom Fighter whatever. The majority of history is bias as hell.
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    (Original post by LockheedS.)
    Appointed by Corbyn.

    Said this.




    I can't quite believe how insane the left wing have become in this country. Not only allied with Islamic extremism, but actually applauding the murder of British citizens by the IRA.
    Well, he is right. Without the action of the IRA, Britain would have sat on the sidelines as the Unionists silently removed the Catholics from Northern Ireland. It says alot frankly that it took the actions of a terror group to do so.

    The IRA were the protectors of the Catholic people at a point in time.

    Still, mad that Labour would select him. The media will have a field day.

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    I have 0 faith in him. Then again, I am biased as he's my MP.
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    You fell for the propaganda. Well done, OP.
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    His headquarters is in Hayes town, one of the worse places I have ever been to in my life, he is vermin.
    Yeah I've seen his base countless times when I've gone past it. I just never try and visit the town centre if I can cause its honestly awful, and has only been getting worse as the years have rolled by.
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    To me this is no different from an MP saying we should honor the dead in ISIS I am sure any member of ISIS would give similar reasons for what they are doing to what a member of the IRA would say. Disgusting man and more than enough reason to make sure Labour don't win regardless of what policies Corbyn introduces.
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    Bobby Sands was convicted on very dubious charges, went on hunger strike for political status, was elected as an MP and died as a martyr.

    Thatcher was within her right to refuse to negotiate, but again, considering the dubious nature of the charges, I don't see why the Sands comments is at all outrageous.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)


    Still, mad that Labour would select him. The media will have a field day.

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    It's like they want to loose :-/
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well, he is right. Without the action of the IRA, Britain would have sat on the sidelines as the Unionists silently removed the Catholics from Northern Ireland. It says alot frankly that it took the actions of a terror group to do so.

    The IRA were the protectors of the Catholic people at a point in time.
    Yes, it was great having Catholics murdered by the IRA, indiscriminate bombings, the economy turned to ****-all, people "policed" by a terrorist group through fear of being murdered, people being executed for helping the police and so on.

    In a sectarian conflict, there will never be anything gained by partisan terror groups running the streets furthering the battle with their rivals over nothing. Many Unionists worked with the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland, and most Roman Catholics abhorred the IRA and its violence. They served themselves.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Bobby Sands was convicted on very dubious charges, went on hunger strike for political status, was elected as an MP and died as a martyr.
    I'm not sure where you're getting this. There is no serious dispute that Bobby Sands was caught with guns in 1972 and was involved in the Dunmurry bombing in 1976 - a few months after his release from prison. After that bombing, he was caught trying to escape the scenes in a car with a gun which had been fired at the police. There is also no dispute that he committed crimes he was never charged with: membership of the Provisional IRA for a start.

    He died a martyr, eh? Starving himself in protest at having to wear prison uniforms and do work like every other prisoner. Sounds noble.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's like they want to loose :-/
    They'd rather keep their morals pure and become a protest movement than get into power and activeley help people.
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    (Original post by LockheedS.)
    Appointed by Corbyn.

    Said this.




    I can't quite believe how insane the left wing have become in this country. Not only allied with Islamic extremism, but actually applauding the murder of British citizens by the IRA.
    British citizens were also murdered by Protestant terrorists. They were the militant segments of two sides of a deeply divided society on religious and nationalistic grounds. I don't know much about the history of Northern Island but I bet the British state took one side over the other and made a lot of stuff worse.


    (Original post by L i b)
    I'm not sure where you're getting this. There is no serious dispute that Bobby Sands was caught with guns in 1972 and was involved in the Dunmurry bombing in 1976 - a few months after his release from prison. After that bombing, he was caught trying to escape the scenes in a car with a gun which had been fired at the police. There is also no dispute that he committed crimes he was never charged with: membership of the Provisional IRA for a start.

    He died a martyr, eh? Starving himself in protest at having to wear prison uniforms and do work like every other prisoner. Sounds noble.
    According to Wikipedia 9so may not be correct) he was only charged with possession of a gun. Why the heck was he not charged for the bombing which lead to 4 by standers getting killed?

    Also Mandela was greatly inspired and influenced by Bobby Sanders. So why is it now fashionable to admire that particular terrorist?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Yes, it was great having Catholics murdered by the IRA, indiscriminate bombings, the economy turned to ****-all, people "policed" by a terrorist group through fear of being murdered, people being executed for helping the police and so on.

    In a sectarian conflict, there will never be anything gained by partisan terror groups running the streets furthering the battle with their rivals over nothing. Many Unionists worked with the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland, and most Roman Catholics abhorred the IRA and its violence. They served themselves.
    Blaming the terrorists themselves but not the powers that be is very naive. Obviously the UVF never did this, or the UWC strikes, or the RUC checkpoints.

    Don't forget that police intervened to beat down protestors, Burntollet was rigged for an ambush by Paisleyites. The pressure from the IRA and the hunger strikers was more effective (sadly) than the influence of the PD and NICRA. There might not have been anything to gain, but when you choke off other measures towards equality there is nothing else to be expected.

    Initially, the target was installations. Once they started targeting soldiers their popularity drained, but at the same time, internment drove recruitment up.

    They did indeed serve themselves, but no one else was.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I'm not sure where you're getting this. There is no serious dispute that Bobby Sands was caught with guns in 1972 and was involved in the Dunmurry bombing in 1976 - a few months after his release from prison. After that bombing, he was caught trying to escape the scenes in a car with a gun which had been fired at the police. There is also no dispute that he committed crimes he was never charged with: membership of the Provisional IRA for a start.

    He died a martyr, eh? Starving himself in protest at having to wear prison uniforms and do work like every other prisoner. Sounds noble.
    Well there is actually, since he was never charged with explosive offences.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Blaming the terrorists themselves but not the powers that be is very naive. Obviously the UVF never did this, or the UWC strikes, or the RUC checkpoints.
    Ah yes, what our dear cousins in Northern Ireland call whataboutery. The wonderful suggestion that somehow blaming anyone for anything is intolerable because you don't necessarily in the same breath condemn everyone.

    when you choke off other measures towards equality there is nothing else to be expected.
    No. Discriminating against people in the assignment of council houses and other sundry petty attacks which the Northern Ireland government and local authorities participated in are perfect justification for protest - they are not justification for murder.

    What is undoubtedly the case in my mind is that the IRA made life considerably worse for Roman Catholics (and everyone else) in Northern Ireland than it was. They poisoned the country, with the ramifications still being felt today.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well there is actually, since he was never charged with explosive offences.
    Again, that doesn't really change the position. That someone was not charged with something does not make a serious case that they did not do it.

    You're assuming that we have to support every allegation of guilt of every dead man with a trial in a court of law. We do not. We know well that Harold Shipman was responsible for countless more murders than he ever saw on an indictment against his name.

    If you're willing to point to anyone serious making a defence of Bobby Sands getting involved in a gunfight with the police near a recently exploded IRA bomb, I'd love to see it.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Ah yes, what our dear cousins in Northern Ireland call whataboutery. The wonderful suggestion that somehow blaming anyone for anything is intolerable because you don't necessarily in the same breath condemn everyone.



    No. Discriminating against people in the assignment of council houses and other sundry petty attacks which the Northern Ireland government and local authorities participated in are perfect justification for protest - they are not justification for murder.

    What is undoubtedly the case in my mind is that the IRA made life considerably worse for Roman Catholics (and everyone else) in Northern Ireland than it was. They poisoned the country, with the ramifications still being felt today.
    Sadly, I have to remind this because people have a habit of taking individual events outside of the context of the time. Too many people for instance jump in to criticise nationalists who took up arms, but are unaware of the background that saw arming as an option.

    "Protest" - protests were quashed, violently. So naturally they should be able to protect themselves by responding with viol....oh hang on.

    I disagree on your last point, but it is interesting you feel that way. Personally I think the Unionist government had the power and desire to eradicate Catholics from NI. I believe that over time, without the IRA, a series of fires, murders etc. Would have seen catholics forced to flee below the border. So in the short term, I disagree.

    Long term? In what sense? Currently it is just a fringe organisation, with no mainstream support. The Unionist parties who criticise SF in government on the grounds is fair enough, but the McGuigan situation is nothing to do with "sudden" IRA relevations. It's to do with Robinson and NAMA.

    The best argument I think would be that SDLP becomes the main nationalist party, which, under Hume, would have been amazing. Perhaps a less extreme unionist party follows suit.

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    (Original post by L i b)
    Again, that doesn't really change the position. That someone was not charged with something does not make a serious case that they did not do it.

    You're assuming that we have to support every allegation of guilt of every dead man with a trial in a court of law. We do not. We know well that Harold Shipman was responsible for countless more murders than he ever saw on an indictment against his name.

    If you're willing to point to anyone serious making a defence of Bobby Sands getting involved in a gunfight with the police near a recently exploded IRA bomb, I'd love to see it.
    Well, we're talking a dangerous precedent if your argument is that he did it, regardless of whether or not he was found guilty of it.

    I don't know frankly, but I'm curious as to why he wasn't charged on that. Planting weapons is not beyond the rumours of the time and I do indeed doubt the validity of police reports at the time.

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