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Hehe Oxford is Apparently Rubbish?
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517274
Note the 100+ comments at the bottom of the article.
Note the 100+ comments at the bottom of the article.
Reply 1
Well, if you want a rebuttal of the article, i suggest you start with most of the comments.
Nick Juravich
Let’s get this straight: you applied for and won a scholarship for graduate study at Oxford University without ever finding out anything about your program, general academic life, research opportunities and limitations, and the general conditions of life in the UK.
You blame everyone (Harvard, the interview process, the Rhodes Trust on both sides of the pond) but yourselves even though current and recently-graduated Rhodes Scholars are easily accessible through Rhodes House, especially once you’ve won the stipend.
You paint a massively negative portrait of the University of Oxford that suggests it is in every way inferior to Harvard and other American Universities.
What you don't explain is what you're still doing here, which seems to me to be a crucial part of the story. You don't offer a single point to Oxford's credit, but you haven't dropped out to write those novels or work for those NGOs--why? What's the allure? If you're really interested in giving the future Rhodies of Harvard the truth, if this is really a public service announcement, then give us the whole truth, and tell us why you stayed.
I'm a first-year Rhodes, and I've been frustrated with the decentralized library system, broke, poorly fed, and generally unhappy more than once. I've also met brilliant people, had fascinating tutorials, and attended great lectures. Nobody promised me it'd be perfect--as a matter of fact, they promised it wouldn't be. But the benefits outweight the costs by a longshot, so I'm not cashing out to go write that novel.
I'm not opposed to being candid and open about problems at Oxford or with the Rhodes. But after raking Oxford over the coals, you've given no reason to stay here. What's the reponse? If you have reasons to stay, publish them here, as the second part of a series on Oxford. Could be interesting.
If you don't have any, then you're burning a pair of stipends for no real reason.
You blame everyone (Harvard, the interview process, the Rhodes Trust on both sides of the pond) but yourselves even though current and recently-graduated Rhodes Scholars are easily accessible through Rhodes House, especially once you’ve won the stipend.
You paint a massively negative portrait of the University of Oxford that suggests it is in every way inferior to Harvard and other American Universities.
What you don't explain is what you're still doing here, which seems to me to be a crucial part of the story. You don't offer a single point to Oxford's credit, but you haven't dropped out to write those novels or work for those NGOs--why? What's the allure? If you're really interested in giving the future Rhodies of Harvard the truth, if this is really a public service announcement, then give us the whole truth, and tell us why you stayed.
I'm a first-year Rhodes, and I've been frustrated with the decentralized library system, broke, poorly fed, and generally unhappy more than once. I've also met brilliant people, had fascinating tutorials, and attended great lectures. Nobody promised me it'd be perfect--as a matter of fact, they promised it wouldn't be. But the benefits outweight the costs by a longshot, so I'm not cashing out to go write that novel.
I'm not opposed to being candid and open about problems at Oxford or with the Rhodes. But after raking Oxford over the coals, you've given no reason to stay here. What's the reponse? If you have reasons to stay, publish them here, as the second part of a series on Oxford. Could be interesting.
If you don't have any, then you're burning a pair of stipends for no real reason.
another rhodes scholar that knows the authors
In short, the two authors are two of the least-integrated-into-Oxford-life Rhodes Scholars I know. They have not taken advantage of the things that make Oxford unique, like college life. The H-bomb "blows up in their faces" because they spend time largely with each other and other Harvard folk they knew before coming over, and the rest of it telling anyone who will listen how Harvard was better and how much easier things were back in the United States. This column is fairly typical.
Reply 2
It's a whiny piece and rather immature, but I have to say that compared to Harvard, Oxford is quite archaic and poorly organized. This was a major problem I had when I was at Oxford as a visiting student, as I was used to a large, American university that was extremely up to date as regards the use of technology. At Oxford I was using that Oxlip thing that didn't even work through a web browser to order books - in 2005.
In general though, I hate when Americans go abroad and complain about things they could have easily found out about before they left. I know someone at my current uni who spends most of her time complaining about how LSE sucks compared to Oxford (where she did a previous degree) because there are no tutorials and there are fewer organized social events. Both are pretty obvious to anyone before stepping foot at the university. When I tell to her that she should have gone back to Oxford then, she says "LSE is better for this subject though." OK...so stop complaining!
In general though, I hate when Americans go abroad and complain about things they could have easily found out about before they left. I know someone at my current uni who spends most of her time complaining about how LSE sucks compared to Oxford (where she did a previous degree) because there are no tutorials and there are fewer organized social events. Both are pretty obvious to anyone before stepping foot at the university. When I tell to her that she should have gone back to Oxford then, she says "LSE is better for this subject though." OK...so stop complaining!
Reply 3
In my opinion Oxford would be a lot better without so many damned yanks scurrying around it.
Reply 4
if you didn't realise oxford would be archaic before you came up, i think you deserve to have a hard time, quite frankly.
Reply 5
Admittedly I only know Cam, but it seems we're excellent at using technology to organise things here. Is there anything at Oxford which isn't organised by an integrated online system? I renew books online, I vote for my JCR/CUSU exec online, I check buttery menus online, I check my exam entries online, I study for my language course online, I read my supervision feedback online, I download all my lectures notes/slides from the faculty intranet, I connect to their remote software libraries from my room, I read quite a lot of textbooks as ebooks from the library's website, I read journals, I connect to the stats database from my room, I file maintenance requests online, I can print anywhere in the university from anywhere, I can access my storage from anywhere, I can get a wireless signal in all the places I work, I can't think what else I'd want.
Reply 6
not
Admittedly I only know Cam, but it seems we're excellent at using technology to organise things here. Is there anything at Oxford which isn't organised by an integrated online system? I renew books online, I vote for my JCR/CUSU exec online, I check buttery menus online, I check my exam entries online, I study for my language course online, I read my supervision feedback online, I download all my lectures notes/slides from the faculty intranet, I connect to their remote software libraries from my room, I read quite a lot of textbooks as ebooks from the library's website, I read journals, I connect to the stats database from my room, I file maintenance requests online, I can print anywhere in the university from anywhere, I can access my storage from anywhere, I can get a wireless signal in all the places I work, I can't think what else I'd want.
Light years ahead of Oxford. I'd always heard that Cam was anyway.
Reply 7
16
not
Admittedly I only know Cam, but it seems we're excellent at using technology to organise things here. Is there anything at Oxford which isn't organised by an integrated online system? I renew books online, I vote for my JCR/CUSU exec online, I check buttery menus online, I check my exam entries online, I study for my language course online, I read my supervision feedback online, I download all my lectures notes/slides from the faculty intranet, I connect to their remote software libraries from my room, I read quite a lot of textbooks as ebooks from the library's website, I read journals, I connect to the stats database from my room, I file maintenance requests online, I can print anywhere in the university from anywhere, I can access my storage from anywhere, I can get a wireless signal in all the places I work, I can't think what else I'd want.
Cambridge may be better than Oxford, but I've found Oxford to be pretty good, and in some ways ahead of Cambridge. What Oxford does better is bringing together all your course materials in one interactive online environment, which we lovingly know as WebLearn. It's dynamic, personalised and interactive, being used for lecture notes, timetables, sign-up sheets, feedback, tests... The other thing they do better is VPN, which is still experimental at Cambridge, for some reason I cannot understand. I haven't needed to use IT facilities as much since I joined clinical school, but I know my college offers wireless access, online meal booking and all those things you'd expect. The only thing I have been unimpressed by so far is the way the Oxford university libraries make you use antiquated web browsers to find books and take them out.
Reply 8
17
sTe\/o
The only thing I have been unimpressed by so far is the way the Oxford university libraries make you use antiquated web browsers to find books and take them out.
They do? I've been getting quite intimate with OLIS during my SSM
You can use it in firefox, find/stack request & track your books?I'd agree with some of the comments made in response about the attitude and integration of some (obviously there are exceptions - I can think of a few although they weren't Rhodes scholars...) American students not helping in making the whole "Oxford experience" as good as it could be. Otherwise, the criticisms of find out about the place you're applying to rather than just focussing on the prize of a prestigious scholarship are fairly obvious (!)
Reply 9
Opsimathmo
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517274
Note the 100+ comments at the bottom of the article.
Note the 100+ comments at the bottom of the article.
It is by an American Rhodes.
They tend to be pretty dumb and do really poorly academically.
Reply 10
I found the article rather embarrassing for Harvard. The two girls lament that Oxford is a whole two hours away from London! Clearly the Vice-Chancellor should issue a full and frank apology on behalf of his forbears for, bizarrely enough, locating Oxford University in Oxford. Then they moan about how they don't receive any special treatment as Rhodes Scholars, as clearly Oxford is extremely privileged to have two such learned individuals in its midst. The criticism of the Bodlean was also weird, because as I understand it, as a copyright library it ranks among one of the best in Britain, if not Europe as a whole. Of course I've used it, so that's just conjecture. Finally, what's with "everything" closing at 5 o'clock? OK, the Post Office might, but I doubt bars/cafés/pubs/clubs do! Someone commented after the article that they knew them at Oxford, and they never went out / tried to integrate themselves. Sounds about right from what they said.
Apart from anything else, the article provided an interesting insight into how Americans perceive our mores.
Apart from anything else, the article provided an interesting insight into how Americans perceive our mores.
Reply 11
16
Elles
They do? I've been getting quite intimate with OLIS during my SSM You can use it in firefox, find/stack request & track your books?
You can use it in firefox, find/stack request & track your books?I was actually thinking specifically of my experience in the RSL. I've somehow managed to avoid using the Bod and my college library at all since coming here.
Reply 12
17
sTe\/o
I was actually thinking specifically of my experience in the RSL. I've somehow managed to avoid using the Bod and my college library at all since coming here.
The RSL has its own stacks and rooms you can request to online too - at the start of my SSM I sent everything there because it was familiar! Though I did since venture to the Bod & other random libraries.
I suppose you guys missed out on all the welcome to Oxford library tours & Foundation course literature searching / using the Libraries here? Well, for a small fee...
Reply 13
The authors appear to have comitted career suicide. The networks of Oxbridge and HYPers have firmly placed them on their **** list. Here are a few comments made by ex-Rhodes scholars, HYPers and old Oxonians:
"RE: Oxford Blues
I thought the art of Hari-Kiri had ceased...
If these ladies plan on applying to the consulting company I am a principle for, they will not get far..I just forwarded this article and their names to HR guess whos's on the reject list
RE: Oxford Blues
This article is being emailed around the world along the internal mailing lists of the investment banking community (Oxbridge and HYP to a large extent ) The trail of comments accompanying the article suggests strongly that these women will never get a job in at least this field.
Any diplomats willing to do the same ?"
"RE: Oxford Blues
I thought the art of Hari-Kiri had ceased...
If these ladies plan on applying to the consulting company I am a principle for, they will not get far..I just forwarded this article and their names to HR guess whos's on the reject list
RE: Oxford Blues
This article is being emailed around the world along the internal mailing lists of the investment banking community (Oxbridge and HYP to a large extent ) The trail of comments accompanying the article suggests strongly that these women will never get a job in at least this field.
Any diplomats willing to do the same ?"
Reply 14
fundamentally
The authors appear to have comitted career suicide. The networks of Oxbridge and HYPers have firmly placed them on their **** list:
"RE: Oxford Blues
I thought the art of Hari-Kiri had ceased...
If these ladies plan on applying to the consulting company I am a principle for, they will not get far..I just forwarded this article and their names to HR guess whos's on the reject list
RE: Oxford Blues
This article is being emailed around the world along the internal mailing lists of the investment banking community (Oxbridge and HYP to a large extent ) The trail of comments accompanying the article suggests strongly that these women will never get a job in at least this field.
"RE: Oxford Blues
I thought the art of Hari-Kiri had ceased...
If these ladies plan on applying to the consulting company I am a principle for, they will not get far..I just forwarded this article and their names to HR guess whos's on the reject list
RE: Oxford Blues
This article is being emailed around the world along the internal mailing lists of the investment banking community (Oxbridge and HYP to a large extent ) The trail of comments accompanying the article suggests strongly that these women will never get a job in at least this field.
Let's clap hands at this...
Reply 15
Fidelis Oditah QC SAN
Let's clap hands at this...
Melissa and Swati say in their article that they want to go and work in the developing world. People are just making sure that M & S do just that. After all, cant have such nice and mature people distracted by career opportunities in diplomacy or IB, when they could be advising poor Somalians abiut the horrors of studying at Oxford.
Reply 16
to be honest, it seems they were trying to make some valid points, and messed it up quite badly. if you read the piece through carefully, it seems clear that what they want to do is warn potential rhodes scholars of what two years in oxford actually involves - and the library system, tutorial system etc etc seem not to suit some people from harvard particularly well. they are trying to get people to think before they apply for a scholarship that is draped in prestige, and make sure they actually want to do it...
the comments about "rhodes scholars receiving no special treatment" sounds incredibly arrogant and naive from an english perspective, but i think if you see it how americans will, it doesn't sound so bad. the rhodes is so prestigious in america that the probably do expect to arrive to a hero's welcome in england, and it's a bit of a surprise to them that no-one especially cares here. this article is a warning.
but, of course, they're not very adept writers and have let too many things cloud their original point. they've obviously not had a great time, and so have lashed out at everything - harvard, rhodes, the interviews, oxford as a city AND as a university - which both weakens their arguments and makes them look pathetic, and also makes you wonder exactly how these girls, who are both 24/25, are going to be able to survive in the real world if they can't handle supermarkets being more than 2 minutes away from them.
the article is obviously a mistake, as it is nothing but critical, badly written and sets it targets too wide, which seems to have alienated a large number of people, but you can maybe feel some sympathy for the (helpful) angle they were probably trying to catch.
the point is that people DO apply for the rhodes as an achievement in itself - and the authors are asking: do you really want to study for 2 more years "after turning in your 150-page senior thesis?", and also telling people a little about the drawbacks of oxford, as most americans see oxford as perfection. the aim was laudable, the execution unfortunate.
the comments about "rhodes scholars receiving no special treatment" sounds incredibly arrogant and naive from an english perspective, but i think if you see it how americans will, it doesn't sound so bad. the rhodes is so prestigious in america that the probably do expect to arrive to a hero's welcome in england, and it's a bit of a surprise to them that no-one especially cares here. this article is a warning.
but, of course, they're not very adept writers and have let too many things cloud their original point. they've obviously not had a great time, and so have lashed out at everything - harvard, rhodes, the interviews, oxford as a city AND as a university - which both weakens their arguments and makes them look pathetic, and also makes you wonder exactly how these girls, who are both 24/25, are going to be able to survive in the real world if they can't handle supermarkets being more than 2 minutes away from them.
the article is obviously a mistake, as it is nothing but critical, badly written and sets it targets too wide, which seems to have alienated a large number of people, but you can maybe feel some sympathy for the (helpful) angle they were probably trying to catch.
the point is that people DO apply for the rhodes as an achievement in itself - and the authors are asking: do you really want to study for 2 more years "after turning in your 150-page senior thesis?", and also telling people a little about the drawbacks of oxford, as most americans see oxford as perfection. the aim was laudable, the execution unfortunate.
Reply 17
fundamentally
Melissa and Swati say in their article that they want to go and work in the developing world. People are just making sure that M & S do just that. After all, cant have such nice and mature people distracted by career opportunities in diplomacy or IB, when they could be advising poor Somalians abiut the horrors of studying at Oxford.
*Somali/s.
Reply 18
12
The point they make about superivsors spending most of their time avoiding student emails is true enough. And while they're wrong about the Bod, I'm still of the opinion that life is too short for stack requests, and that the Oxlip browser system is stuck in the eighties, and they STILL aren't making any convincing effort to replace it.
But all students have gripes with their universities, and Oxford is certainly no exception. The drive behind this article though was really a self-inflated sense of its authors' status as scholarship girls, and how the lack of special treatment at Oxford appalled them so. Obviously all Harvard taught them was to expect special treatment wherever they go.
But all students have gripes with their universities, and Oxford is certainly no exception. The drive behind this article though was really a self-inflated sense of its authors' status as scholarship girls, and how the lack of special treatment at Oxford appalled them so. Obviously all Harvard taught them was to expect special treatment wherever they go.
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