Madeleine McCann investigation 'cost £10 million to date' Watch

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justag
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It isn't 12 years as regards the UK taxpayer. For much of that time it was with the Police in Portugal. Also, it hasn't been a continuous expenditure, there have been phases of activity.

I agree though that these things can't go on for ever, I am just suspicious of the motives of people calling for an end to it, as we have had so much blame the victims with the McCann case. It seems that many people care far more about the displeasure of hearing something bad given regular coverage in the media than about the bad thing itself. Total selfishness.
The resources that have gone into the case, both in terms if time and money, have been majorly excessive.

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e aí rapaz
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(Original post by Zerforax)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...pirals-6365140

The Missing Kids UK website has 155 children, including Maddie, registered but research shows an average of just £2,415 is spent investigating disappeared youngsters.

Depends how much you trust the Mirror but there you go.

file:///C:/Users/sabh/Downloads/Policing_2013_72.pdf

That may be the original source.

They may not have directly taken funds from other missing children investigations to carry on with the MM investigation but it's obvious that every department has a budget so if you allocate more resources to one investigation then it means less for others.

Why is the life of a teenager worth less than a younger child? Why you entitled to presume that they were runaways and that is acceptable but you can't accept that more resources were spent on MM than other kids?
We've already had that discussion earlier in the thread. The average is irrelevant because almost all children are only missing for days rather than years.

The life of a teenager is not worth less than that of a younger child. But the investigation will obviously be different and the chances of them being a runaway is obviously vastly higher.
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Fullofsurprises
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#83
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(Original post by Zerforax)
I'm sure it's nowhere near £10mil (+£2mil already budgeted for the future). Why should we be spending more because it is foreign? If anything, it would be the local police who investigate. But they've obviously long given up because there are no leads.

It's a common theme because that's how most people feel. While there may not be written sources, they are assumptions based on common sense.

Madeleine McCann disappeared in May 2007 (she's listed on missingkids.co.uk). Since then, there are another 112 children who are listed as still missing (I'm sure there have been others who have been found). How many others get the same level of publicity, support or funds as Madeleine McCann? What is so different about Madeleine McCann compared to the other 112 children who went missing after her? Why have they not each had £10mil spent on them?
Many will be older - peak age for missing kids is 15/16.

I think some cases are carefully thought about by the police and local media and where they have suspicions that they are basically cases of parental dispute, or forced return to another country by relatives, etc, they get less attention.

I don't doubt that the McCann case got continued exposure because of the access to resources of her parents and the nature of the case, but that doesn't mean all the points made against in this thread are true.
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by e aí rapaz)
Interesting, thanks. If that proves anything it's that actually, people have their grievances the wrong way around. Even you yourself said:
If your figures are true, and we assume that the spread gives us a more figure for what is a reasonable and appropriate amount to spend on a missing persons case, then what you really mean to say is "If they spend £330,000 on all similar cases, they should spend that on this case".
I don't think this means people have their grievances the wrong way around. A 'similar' case, using fag-packet maths, should cost £330k. That's why people are outraged this has cost whatever it has (10?11?). Yes, I think there should be equality - if something is spent on one case, it should be spent on another similar case. I don't think this should be over £10,000,000, though. Do you?
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aamirac
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#85
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Imagine if every child's missing case was treated like this....
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Zerforax
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(Original post by e aí rapaz)
We've already had that discussion earlier in the thread. The average is irrelevant because almost all children are only missing for days rather than years.

The life of a teenager is not worth less than that of a younger child. But the investigation will obviously be different and the chances of them being a runaway is obviously vastly higher.
You first complain about a source and when you get one you dispute it. Find a source which covers missing children over X number of days if you need to to prove your point. Otherwise my source backs the point that MM's case had far in excess than it needed.

The chances that a 3 year old (missing for the last 8 years) is dead is far higher than for teenagers so should MM's case have been treated differently in your view?
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Gwilym101
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I would ask for a complete break down of the costs because I wouldn't put it past the media to massively exaggerate the numbers. For instance 2 million of the costs being IT but basically counting an entire police departments IT branch that is also doing other investigations.
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by e aí rapaz)
I'm just looking for some hard evidence that the amount spent on the McCann case was disproportionate or unreasonable, since that's what everybody is up in arms about.
Yes, and you've got something approaching hard evidence showing that a disproportionate amount of money has been spent on her case.
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StrangeBanana
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The stuff about them being stupid, leaving their door unlocked, is very victim-blaming..
Victim-blaming isn't an inherently bad thing. In this case, the victims were partially to blame, as they acted carelessly. Saying "but loads of parents do it" isn't an excuse, it just means there are a lot of bad parents.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by StrangeBanana)
Victim-blaming isn't an inherently bad thing. In this case, the victims were partially to blame, as they acted carelessly. Saying "but loads of parents do it" isn't an excuse, it just means there are a lot of bad parents.
Sure, but that's the point - the way people round on the McCanns, you'd think they were particularly shining examples of terrible parents, but in fact they made a mistake that many do. So they shouldn't be denied taxpayer resources because of that. Especially not their little girl, who didn't make any mistakes worth ignoring her fate for.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Gwilym101)
I would ask for a complete break down of the costs because I wouldn't put it past the media to massively exaggerate the numbers. For instance 2 million of the costs being IT but basically counting an entire police departments IT branch that is also doing other investigations.
They probably are drivel - someone on a newspaper phones some PR for a police force - "how much does the McCanns cost taxpayers then?". "Oh, I dunno, maybe a few million, maybe 10, yeah, 10". And so musing becomes truth, truth becomes myth, myth becomes legend, legend becomes factoid and factoid becomes widespread public knowledge.
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
They probably are drivel - someone on a newspaper phones some PR for a police force - "how much does the McCanns cost taxpayers then?". "Oh, I dunno, maybe a few million, maybe 10, yeah, 10". And so musing becomes truth, truth becomes myth, myth becomes legend, legend becomes factoid and factoid becomes widespread public knowledge.
How does truth, having originally emerged from musing, subsequently evolve into myth? And what is the difference between myth and legend?
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Sure, but that's the point - the way people round on the McCanns, you'd think they were particularly shining examples of terrible parents, but in fact they made a mistake that many do. So they shouldn't be denied taxpayer resources because of that. Especially not their little girl, who didn't make any mistakes worth ignoring her fate for.
If parents are leaving three year olds on their own in the house when they go out then we have a bit of a problem.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
If parents are leaving three year olds on thier own in the house when they go out then we have a bit of a problem.
Obviously if they did that at home, with no other adults present, yes.

However, you appear to have an incomplete picture (as many people do) of the holiday premises where they were staying. A big part of their PR was high levels of security and supervision. They claimed that all passages were fully monitored and that nobody could get past gate control who had no business there. (Both points later turned out to be false claims.) They weren't all that far from the flat and other parents regularly did the same thing there. They felt that it was an enclosed, safe, family environment. Evidently it wasn't, but may people who stayed there have reported the same views.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Obviously if they did that at home, with no other adults present, yes.

However, you appear to have an incomplete picture (as many people do) of the holiday premises where they were staying. A big part of their PR was high levels of security and supervision. They claimed that all passages were fully monitored and that nobody could get past gate control who had no business there. (Both points later turned out to be false claims.) They weren't all that far from the flat and other parents regularly did the same thing there. They felt that it was an enclosed, safe, family environment. Evidently it wasn't, but may people who stayed there have reported the same views.
Hmmm... Maybe. Still not convinced.
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JoshDawg
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Do you guys think that the reason this went as far as it did was because of the media coverage and pressure on our gov./ police forces?
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StrangeBanana
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Sure, but that's the point - the way people round on the McCanns, you'd think they were particularly shining examples of terrible parents, but in fact they made a mistake that many do. So they shouldn't be denied taxpayer resources because of that. Especially not their little girl, who didn't make any mistakes worth ignoring her fate for.
People focus on the McCanns because their mistake - regardless of how common it is - had particularly devastating results.

(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
However, you appear to have an incomplete picture (as many people do) of the holiday premises where they were staying. A big part of their PR was high levels of security and supervision. They claimed that all passages were fully monitored and that nobody could get past gate control who had no business there. (Both points later turned out to be false claims.) They weren't all that far from the flat and other parents regularly did the same thing there. They felt that it was an enclosed, safe, family environment. Evidently it wasn't, but may people who stayed there have reported the same views.
Doesn't matter. You just don't leave 3 year-old children home alone (or "hotel" alone), and that is that. It's just irresponsible.
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by JoshDawg)
Do you guys think that the reason this went as far as it did was because of the media coverage and pressure on our gov./ police forces?
Absolutely
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by StrangeBanana)
People focus on the McCanns because their mistake - regardless of how common it is - had particularly devastating results.



Doesn't matter. You just don't leave 3 year-old children home alone (or "hotel" alone), and that is that. It's just irresponsible.
They basically assumed they were in a safe place surrounded by safe adults. Loads of parents let their three year olds run around in such environments without always being in sight, for example. Loads of parents are near their house physically with the children asleep upstairs, for example, they can be in a big garden but close to the property. That was basically the situation where the McCanns were. The only trouble really was with the security at the place, they let the paedophile wonder in at will, presumably they were used to him or even in league, something the Portuguese police lamentably failed to examine properly originally - it has now come out that a local crime gang was regularly working the property. None of this was known to the guests of course.
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StrangeBanana
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
They basically assumed they were in a safe place surrounded by safe adults. Loads of parents let their three year olds run around in such environments without always being in sight, for example. Loads of parents are near their house physically with the children asleep upstairs, for example, they can be in a big garden but close to the property. That was basically the situation where the McCanns were. The only trouble really was with the security at the place, they let the paedophile wonder in at will, presumably they were used to him or even in league, something the Portuguese police lamentably failed to examine properly originally - it has now come out that a local crime gang was regularly working the property. None of this was known to the guests of course.
You keep justifying their actions with "loads of parents do xyz". It doesn't matter. Outside in the garden at home is a completely different situation, because it is your property, you know your way around it very well, and there's going to be very few entrances and exits. None of these is the case in a hotel, and each of them significantly lowers the risks of leaving your child unattended. What does "safe adults" mean, anyway? As far as a parent (or child, for that matter) should be concerned, no stranger is safe (disregarding police, firemen, et cetera).

Clearly, the authorities and hotel security screwed up big time, and the bulk of the blame lays on them and the criminals themselves, but the fact remains the tragedy could have been avoided if the parents had just been more responsible, so they are not blameless. They were in a foreign country, where vigilance is a necessity, and their daughter paid the price for its absence.
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