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    (Original post by Adhsur)
    True true, though I didn't find the definitions above any more enlightening either ^^^. I don't think you can define anything exactly in a way that will satisfy all philosophers. I think sometimes there is no use considering an idea's intrinsic definition but simply how it is applied instead. Socratic fallacy and all that.

    Lol, precisely. You might roughly agree with my last 7 pages
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    A new thing to dwell on: Does time exist or is it a fabric of our imagination, something invented by humans as a means of having order?
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    (Original post by ramroff)
    A new thing to dwell on: Does time exist or is it a fabric of our imagination, something invented by humans as a means of having order?
    Has been mentioned in the Time thread as a matter of fact in the Philosophical discussion forum. We can do it here to if you want though. If anybody wants it, there's a fairly decent argument put forward by McTaggert (the number one Time guy in philosophy) which attempts to show that Time isn't real. Might be quite long though so only if anybody wants it.
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    Order in my opinion. Although it seems natural. Sunrise, sunset - living out our days according to light and dark.
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    (Original post by Jayjayjay)
    Order in my opinion. Although it seems natural. Sunrise, sunset - living out our days according to light and dark.
    What to you mean by 'order' in this sense? Clearly not temporal order. Do you mean regularity type order? :confused:
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    they do not offer Philosophy as an A-level at my college which is a shame although i dont how good the A-level is as i heard Uni's prefer you not to have done it. However i do attend a class called cogito as an enrichment activity so i would be interested in joining this group
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    (Original post by ramroff)
    A new thing to dwell on: Does time exist or is it a fabric of our imagination, something invented by humans as a means of having order?
    Time is invented to enable humans have a means of order..yes.
    however it cannot be defined as a fabric of our imagination as the elements which come into consideration in computing TIME reamins real (Night and Day)
    Except you now want to define night and day as imaginations, Times remains as real as Night and Day.

    The concept of time is however questionable in that it assumes we have 12hrs of day and 12hrs of night and this can be proven wrong in almost every part of the globe
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    (Original post by toluseunfawole)
    Time is invented to enable humans have a means of order
    Errm. Would you say that space is invented too? Since Einstein we've known that space and time are interrelated.
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    (Original post by Calvin)
    Has been mentioned in the Time thread as a matter of fact in the Philosophical discussion forum. We can do it here to if you want though. If anybody wants it, there's a fairly decent argument put forward by McTaggert (the number one Time guy in philosophy) which attempts to show that Time isn't real. Might be quite long though so only if anybody wants it.
    There must be some real concept of time as the sun seems to rise and set at regular intervals, but that can be refuted by the supposed changing of lengths of time.
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    (Original post by Mishael)
    OK, I think I need to enlist some knowledgeable people's help. :p:

    I've never had anyone to talk to about philosophy (*sob*) and I'm only doing an online course this year...so I've always wondered if I'm pronouncing all the weird and wonderful names properly. Can some of you help me out by telling me how to pronounce....

    Plato (Plateau or Plate-oh?)
    Descartes
    Wittgenstein
    Nietzsche
    Kierkegaard
    Ayer (ay-er? or air?)

    Errr...that's all I can think of for now.

    Plato is "plate-oh"
    Descartes is "day cart"
    nietzsche is "neat -sche"
    Ayer is "ay-er"
    i am not entirely sure about the others
    hope that helps
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    I do not study philosophy for GCSE, but I intend to take it for AS and want to take it onto Uni, can I join this society. Pretty pretty please?
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Hey,
    Newest member of PhilSoc. I'm not a philosopher per se, more a historian and I've studied political and religious ideologies/philosophies. So, if theres a debate about isms and schisms, I can give my opinions - so anyone?
    Isms, eh?

    Well, I was meaning to begin a new debate here now summer's started, and this post prompted me to ask something I've been meaning to for some time now...

    Could someone (zaf?) please outline the finer nuances of Liberalism and Libertarianism, for the benefit of someone who knows vaguely the difference between the two but has trouble articulating it? (i.e. no need to treat me as a thicko who doesn't know what liberalism is :rolleyes: - just a comparison of the two!!)

    Cheers,

    ZarathustraX
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    (Original post by shivani singhal)
    There must be some real concept of time as the sun seems to rise and set at regular intervals, but that can be refuted by the supposed changing of lengths of time.
    Two things, firstly your ideas seem in conflict here. The sun rising and setting shows very little about the nature of time in this sense because it doesn't demonstrate that time is something that is part of the world rather than something we impose on it. Thus similarly demonstrating changing lengths of time doesn't contradict that point. What you seem to be getting at is more the regularity of time rather than the concept.
    But then seeing as our only methods of measuring time is by perceiving objects in the world- the movement of a clock hand, the breakdown of atoms, the pulsing of quaso...phaso...zoo....sars... etc these can never demonstrate any alterations in the speed at which time moves. Time by its very nature has to appear regular to us on a classical theory.
    I mean look at it this way, were time to suddenly speed up so everything was moving twice as quick what would we actually notice happening?
    Nothing, we would think twice as fast, everything would move twice as fast etc, we would notice absolutely no change because we are part of time. We have no outside reference, so objects inside time as far as I can tell can demonstrate very little about time- at least on the classical concept of time. The Einsteinean one is a little more troublesome. :confused:


    Secondly, argument that prove time doesn't exist- I'm not sure you are supposed to take them seriously, like other argument against things which are obviously true they are perhaps more interesting for proving that one of our premises must be false rather than that our ludicrous conclusion is.
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    (Original post by Zarathustra)
    Could someone (zaf?) please outline the finer nuances of Liberalism and Libertarianism, for the benefit of someone who knows vaguely the difference between the two but has trouble articulating it?
    This is something that's been irritating me, too, since although the two seem completely related the people who call themselves liberals and libertarians are often at odds on political issues...
    From what I can find the only difference is in the extent to which they practise the same ideology. Liberals believe in the rights of the individual against the state, whilst libertarians believe that the state should only exist in order to protect the rights of individuals. Liberals often have a soft line on economic liberalism... many seem to support a kind of socialism espoused by JS Mill et al, whilst libertarians believe that all welfare should be voluntary, ie charity.

    v. confusing.
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    Could someone (zaf?) please outline the finer nuances of Liberalism and Libertarianism, for the benefit of someone who knows vaguely the difference between the two but has trouble articulating it? (i.e. no need to treat me as a thicko who doesn't know what liberalism is - just a comparison of the two!!)
    Woo-hoo! I'm useful here

    Without going into extensive detail, liberalism is a complex ideology. Traditional liberalism, real liberalism some would say, emphasises the importance of personal and economic liberty, individualism and freedom. Modern liberalism stresses the importance of the equality of opportunity, and hence they are in favour of curbing some civil liberties in order to protect the liberty of others. Libertarainism give more priority to liberty, understood in negative terms - as opposed to modern liberals who appeal to positive freedom - they seek to maximise the realm of individual freedom and minimise the scope of public authority. The key difference, in a sentence, is that libertarianism gives preference to liberty over order - whereas liberals emphasis order to preserve liberty. Libertarians are almost anarchists, however, where they differ is that libertarians still recognise the need of a minimalist or 'nightwatchman' state, sometimes styling themselves as 'minarchists'.

    Hope this helps - feel free to ask if you want me to expand.
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    ooh, ta.
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    Quick, someone say something philosofull...
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    Me need sleep. Eleven thirty stupid time. I do not sleep, therefore I do not think, therefore I am not. Q.E.D.

    *Disappears*
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    Descartes walks into a pub...
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    can i join? may be thinking of doing phil at uni, haven't done it so far though

    It fascinates me.

    No really.
 
 
 
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