Shadow Chancellor is Tory-lite! Watch

ibzombie96
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I really feel for those young'uns who voted for Corbyn and his gang for his unerring opposition to the Tories.

Remember how Liz Kendall was called a Tory for agreeing with George Osborne's fiscal charter?

Well, that's exactly what Jon McDonnell's done...

Richard Murphy, Corbyn's economics guru seems to be irritated. He has been advocating adding to the deficit while interest rates are low.

What are your thoughts?
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Davij038
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Not actually that surprised- Syyrizas ex finance minister was quite complimentary about Osbornes policy (if you ignore the class war comments)

In reality, there's nothing at all radical about Corbyns labour- just a rerun of Harold wilsons government
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by Davij038)
Not actually that surprised- Syyrizas ex finance minister was quite complimentary about Osbornes policy (if you ignore the class war comments)

In reality, there's nothing at all radical about Corbyns labour- just a rerun of Harold wilsons government
Exactly, I just feel a little sorry for those naïfs who thought his election brought a new era of politics and political thought.
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jacktrex
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You lot are being silly, you don't have to be 'right wing' to want to spend within your means, it just means you agree that if you do spend more you have to tax more. Labour didn't overspend, they undertaxed.
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BigItch
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(Original post by Davij038)
Not actually that surprised- Syyrizas ex finance minister was quite complimentary about Osbornes policy (if you ignore the class war comments)

In reality, there's nothing at all radical about Corbyns labour- just a rerun of Harold wilsons government
Harold Wilson was good though- To win 4 elections he has to have something about him. For the younger posters who are not aware they were not consecutive ones .Liz Kendall is a tory in labour colours , I would of said before Iraq and Afghanistan Tony Blair was a Liberal in Labour colours. I'd rather have a mix of centrists and leftwing ministers in Labour. I think Corbyn may be to weak to win , I can only see him beating Boris or Theresa May who lies every time she opens her mouth
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by jacktrex)
You lot are being silly, you don't have to be 'right wing' to want to spend within your means, it just means you agree that if you do spend more you have to tax more. Labour didn't overspend, they undertaxed.
That's an interesting take on spending money you don't have by borrowing it.
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ChaoticButterfly
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The whole 'spending within your means' narrative is dumb.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Not actually that surprised- Syyrizas ex finance minister was quite complimentary about Osbornes policy (if you ignore the class war comments)
What he was saying is that real austerity like that practiced in Greece stuck in the eurozone is awful and those like Osborne know it. Hence why he reversed it when it didn't work and made things worse. But the austerity narrative exists and has a strong hold on people's minds so everything is framed round this. So the Tories will just use it to cut stuff they want to cut regardless fo whether it is good for the overall economics, like welfare benefit etc and just generally reducing the size of the state, but all packaged as austerity. Class warfare and was unapologetic referee to as propaganda in the olden days.

But yeah, Syrizia whilst a left wing party were actually proposing very moderate not inherently left wing policy changes with Greece and the Troika that had backing from economists from all over the political spectrum. But if they were not portrayed as loony communists people might start getting sympathetic and MatureStudent36 wouldn't be able to say how stupid they were :no: They know the status quo isn't working with Greece but they just want to set an example, it didn't matter what Syrizia said. It's like when the west was all about installing dictators in south america to stop pesky democracy spreading.


In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
What he was saying is that real austerity like that practiced in Greece stuck in the eurozone is awful and those like Osborne know it. Hence why he reversed it when it didn't work and made things worse. But the austerity narrative exists and has a strong hold on people's minds so everything is framed round this. So the Tories will just use it to cut stuff they want to cut regardless fo whether it is good for the overall economics, like welfare benefit etc and just generally reducing the size of the state, but all packaged as austerity. Class warfare and was unapologetic referee to as propaganda in the olden days.

But yeah, Syrizia whilst a left wing party were actually proposing very moderate not inherently left wing policy changes with Greece and the Troika that had backing from economists from all over the political spectrum. But if they were not portrayed as loony communists people might start getting sympathetic and MatureStudent36 wouldn't be able to say how stupid they were :no: They know the status quo isn't working with Greece but they just want to set an example, it didn't matter what Syrizia said. It's like when the west was all about installing dictators in south america to stop pesky democracy spreading.


In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing.
And yet all that syrizia has done is bring misery to the Greek people.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
And yet all that syrizia has done is bring misery to the Greek people.
Oh, hello there :innocent:

Ye, because they are continuing to implement what their last CONSERVATIVE government did which is what is being forced onto them by German lead euorzone which is not some massive left wing movement.

See, you just think in terms of partisan politics. Right is good left is bad, I don't have to think now. Greece is a case study of how bad austerity can really **** up a country. But noooooo, when austerity is implemented by a left wing government it is bad and to be apposed. What Syrizia are doing now on the main is no different from that of what their New Democracy party would do. If you got them to witch places and do the exact same thing you would completely reverse your opinion. Syrizia are doing what you want now. Stop moaning.
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barnetlad
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Given the SNP strength, boundary changes and individual registration, this is all academic as the Tories will win in 2020.

Get over it.
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Gears265
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Given the SNP strength, boundary changes and individual registration, this is all academic as the Tories will win in 2020.

Get over it.
Well if you speak to the left wingers on here, they say Corbyn will win an overall majority in England alone, SNP will take all of Scotland and greens will take around 90 seats. They actually believe this.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by Gears265)
Well if you speak to the left wingers on here, they say Corbyn will win an overall majority in England alone, SNP will take all of Scotland and greens will take around 90 seats. They actually believe this.
I would have welcomed the appointment of Maria Eagle as the first woman of the largest opposition party or government to hold the post. Appointing your campaign leader is what John Major did with Norman Lamont, who was probably the worst Chancellor in living memory.

My thought as to the next election is that Labour will only gain around 10 seats at most in Scotland, lose 15 to 20 in England with boundary changes, and maybe 5 to 10 to the Lib Dems, Greens or where UKIP came second. So 232 seats in 2015 translates to around 215-220 with those changes. Will Labour gain 110 seats in England and Wales? I do not think so- it's more seats outside Scotland than they achieved in 2005.
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Gears265
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(Original post by barnetlad)
I would have welcomed the appointment of Maria Eagle as the first woman of the largest opposition party or government to hold the post. Appointing your campaign leader is what John Major did with Norman Lamont, who was probably the worst Chancellor in living memory.

My thought as to the next election is that Labour will only gain around 10 seats at most in Scotland, lose 15 to 20 in England with boundary changes, and maybe 5 to 10 to the Lib Dems, Greens or where UKIP came second. So 232 seats in 2015 translates to around 215-220 with those changes. Will Labour gain 110 seats in England and Wales? I do not think so- it's more seats outside Scotland than they achieved in 2005.
I believe nationalism has swept Scotland completely and forgetting the numbers I agree with you, but I am just pointing out the Corbyn camp actually believes this will happen as I outlined before
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
The whole 'spending within your means' narrative is dumb.
Will you vote Labour now they've adopted that line?
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illegaltobepoor
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Question is will the Tories behave like Tories instead of this Blue Colar Conservatism.

If Tories are going to win in 2020 why not bring in some real nasty politics. Bring in a new Poll Tax or make the disabled work for £1 a hour and young work for £2 a hour.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by ibzombie96)
Will you vote Labour now they've adopted that line?
Probably. Now they got Corbyn. If he is still there. Meanwhile back in First past the post land I live in a Tory infested area so mine is always a protest vote anyway so rather meaningless. But you never know. I'll probably remain a Green in heart even if FPTP forces me to vote lab/lib/whatever.

For reasons I stated earlier,

"In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing."

I don;t think this changes anything really, they are just engaging with the dumb live within your means narrative. When everyone knows the Earth is flat you have to engage with numpties and take their flat earth views on board. Like that spud on question time that got shot down by Yanis :cool:

But if we as a species can't shake off all this erratic mismanagement of things it probably wont make much of a difference in the end. If we keep doing stuff that will lead to big financially collapse 2.0, global warming etc it;s hard to care who wins :indiff:
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ibzombie96
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Probably. Now they got Corbyn. If he is still there. Meanwhile back in First past the post land I live in a Tory infested area so mine is always a protest vote anyway so rather meaningless. But you never know. I'll probably remain a Green in heart even if FPTP forces me to vote lab/lib/whatever.

For reasons I stated earlier,

"In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing."

I don;t think this changes anything really, they are just engaging with the dumb live within your means narrative. When everyone knows the Earth is flat you have to engage with numpties and take their flat earth views on board. Like that spud on question time that got shot down by Yanis :cool:

But if we as a species can't shake off all this erratic mismanagement of things it probably wont make much of a difference in the end. If we keep doing stuff that will lead to big financially collapse 2.0, global warming etc it;s hard to care who wins :indiff:
But wasn't it your lot who crucified Miliband and Kendall for acknowledging public sentiment? Weren't they the unprincipled Tory-lite capitulators? I thought the whole reason people voted for Corbyn was because he was prepared to stick to his guns...

By the way, fiscal conservatism during periods of economic growth and high private sector growth is not a numpty idea. The narrative reflected by the idiot on QT is wrong, but that doesn't mean the idea it serves to explain is a bad one. Let's not forget that Yanis is a confessed Marxist who was forced to undergo austerity without an independent currency to back him. Greece is not the UK.
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RayApparently
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(Original post by Gears265)
Well if you speak to the left wingers on here, they say Corbyn will win an overall majority in England alone, SNP will take all of Scotland and greens will take around 90 seats. They actually believe this.
Who believes that? Seriously.
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United1892
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(Original post by ibzombie96)
I really feel for those young'uns who voted for Corbyn and his gang for his unerring opposition to the Tories.

Remember how Liz Kendall was called a Tory for agreeing with George Osborne's fiscal charter?

Well, that's exactly what Jon McDonnell's done...

Richard Murphy, Corbyn's economics guru seems to be irritated. He has been advocating adding to the deficit while interest rates are low.

What are your thoughts?
Idiotic.
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