Scottish by election results show Corbyn bounce! Watch

skeptical_john
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Bad news: It's a bounce for the tories

http://www.conservativehome.com/loca...terday-63.html

roughly 5% swing for the conservatives


well done everyone, well done.
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Gears265
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Well it is funny you say that because I spoke to some Corbyn voters today and they said they are certain Corbyn will win with an overall majority in 2020, so who is right?
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Gears265)
Well it is funny you say that because I spoke to some Corbyn voters today and they said they are certain Corbyn will win with an overall majority in 2020, so who is right?
Who is right? The people using evidence or those living in fantasy land. That I'm afraid is a decision I cant make for you.
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Gears265
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
Who is right? The people using evidence or those living in fantasy land. That I'm afraid is a decision I cant make for you.
I agree with you but most Corbyn supporters I meet would put their life on the 2020 election being Corbyn's year with an overwhelming majority. They must have a reason for this belief.
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Gears265)
I agree with you but most Corbyn supporters I meet would put their life on the 2020 election being Corbyn's year with an overwhelming majority. They must have a reason for this belief.
Must they?

"a quarter of Americans think that alien visitors have come to Earth"

Never underestimate man's ability to believe in nonsense
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Gears265
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
Must they?

"a quarter of Americans think that alien visitors have come to Earth"

Never underestimate man's ability to believe in nonsense
So essentially you are saying Corbyn supporters are retarded or at least somewhat backwards?
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United1892
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
Bad news: It's a bounce for the tories

http://www.conservativehome.com/loca...terday-63.html

roughly 5% swing for the conservatives


well done everyone, well done.
Not really the election before on at least most of them was in 2012.

Or are we supposed to forget the rise of the SNP and drop of Labour as well as relative recovery of the economy since then.
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United1892
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(Original post by Gears265)
Well it is funny you say that because I spoke to some Corbyn voters today and they said they are certain Corbyn will win with an overall majority in 2020, so who is right?
If they say that then punch them in the head however I dont know a single one saying that so I feel you may be making this up.
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Gears265)
So essentially you are saying Corbyn supporters are retarded or at least somewhat backwards?
that seems like a giant leap, was merely making the point one does not require evidence for one's belief. lord knows I undoubtedly believe in some things which are inherently not true (Villa becoming a title challenging team again for example)

ask these supporters what evidence they have, where has this happened before etc.
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Gears265
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(Original post by United1892)
If they say that then punch them in the head however I dont know a single one saying that so I feel you may be making this up.
I wish I was making this up. They believe people have had enough of austerity, have had enough of Etonian politicians and they believe people want a return of the true Labour values. They think Jeremy represents all this and will bring people back to Labour. I countered it as you would expect and they simply said "If you look at the standing ovations he got at the conference, at the 1000s of people attending his meetings nationwide and the 1000s who have signed up to the Labour Party, you will know he is by far one of the most popular politicians and will win". I just shook my head but there was no convincing them otherwise.
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by United1892)
Not really the election before on at least most of them was in 2012.

Or are we supposed to forget the rise of the SNP and drop of Labour as well as relative recovery of the economy since then.
but the swing is relative to the election before Corbyn was elected? I agree you can't expect him to turn around a giant gap from the SNP so quickly but neither should he be losing ground to the CONSERVATIVES IN SCOTLAND!
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Gears265
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(Original post by United1892)
If they say that then punch them in the head however I dont know a single one saying that so I feel you may be making this up.
I even presented to them my reasons for why he is a Marxist and the overwhelming evidence. You know what they said? They said "good, this country needs Marxist ideals". They were not even willing to disagree with me, what does that say? People who I imagine are quite well tuned with Marxism could not dispute my claims, so surely they agree do they not?
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United1892
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
but the swing is relative to the election before Corbyn was elected? I agree you can't expect him to turn around a giant gap from the SNP so quickly but neither should he be losing ground to the CONSERVATIVES IN SCOTLAND!
Well yes, but its from 2012. We have no definitive data on any swing since he was elected so it remains misleading.
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United1892
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(Original post by Gears265)
I even presented to them my reasons for why he is a Marxist and the overwhelming evidence. You know what they said? They said "good, this country needs Marxist ideals". They were not even willing to disagree with me, what does that say? People who I imagine are quite well tuned with Marxism could not dispute my claims, so surely they agree do they not?
But he isn't a marxist. :banghead:
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Gears265
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(Original post by United1892)
But he isn't a marxist. :banghead:
On multiple occasions I have presented my links to you on this matter, I only ask you present some evidence to me against my claims.
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United1892
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(Original post by Gears265)
On multiple occasions I have presented my links to you on this matter, I only ask you present some evidence to me against my claims.
Marxism=everything owned by proleteriat, discrimination against bourgeious and power via revolution.

Corbyn=nationalisation of several industries, higher taxes for the rich but equal rights and election via democracy.

It's in fact questionable as to whether Corbyn is a socialist or a social democrat.
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by United1892)
Well yes, but its from 2012. We have no definitive data on any swing since he was elected so it remains misleading.
These elections were last night....
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by United1892)
Marxism=everything owned by proleteriat, discrimination against bourgeious and power via revolution.

Corbyn=nationalisation of several industries, higher taxes for the rich but equal rights and election via democracy.

It's in fact questionable as to whether Corbyn is a socialist or a social democrat.
He's probably a social democrat as for John Mcdonnal....
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United1892
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
These elections were last night....
Yes but they could have been worse for Labour before Corbyn took over. I'm saying taking using a 2012 to 2015 swing is not a good judgement on Corbyn when it is possble the result would've been worse before he took over.
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United1892
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
He's probably a social democrat as for John Mcdonnal....
John McDonnell has some questionable views, economically however he's merely a keynesianist.
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