Why we think we hate america. Watch

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zizero
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#21
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#21
(Original post by vienna95)
European elections?
That is absolutely classic!!!

Whoever complained about apathy towards the European elections...
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Vienna
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#22
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#22
(Original post by zizero)
That is absolutely classic!!!

Whoever complained about apathy towards the European elections...
hehe..so much for his detest of ignorance.
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canuck
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#23
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#23
Vienna95, I have to say, please look into the relationship between canada and the U.S. Pick up a news magazine, or just read about the terrible comments we canadians say about america. Lumber is very important to british columbians, it accounts for over 50,000 jobs, when you say it isnt important, you piss of a lot of us. Stop being so ingorant, and look into it. Yes, canada and the U.S. have the biggest trade going on between its borders, but who have to acknowledge, the U.S. get cheap resources from us, and sells them to japan manufactured for far more the price. Many Canadians ask ourselves, "why dont we industrialize, this will create more jobs, thus improving our economy", but we simply cant, If we built lumber mills, more pulp mills, this woulod kill about 30,000 jobs in the U.S., now why do you think this lumber dispute isnt importantm, it is


Right, one last note, dont talk down about liberals, They keep our economy going as best as it can, and they do a fine job of it. Yes, liberals have the motto "the sunny side", meaning, the try to please everyone. Conservatives, and NDP, both will ruin our economy. I know my countries own history very well thank you very much, and im not going to let someone else tell me that im misinformed.
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kriztinae
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#24
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#24
(Original post by vienna95)
UN controlled by america?
9/11 never happened?
anymore conspiracy theories?

biased = not to your liking?
biased? im not even a cypriot so it doesnt matter if i liked it or not
it was biased. did u read the Annan Plan for the reunification of cyprus??
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Apollo
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#25
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#25
(Original post by randdom)
This is a very imformative post thank you. It is always good to here another oppinion. I have read quite a lot about Canadas welfare ect and I think it sounds like a really nice there. I would much rather live in Canada than the USA. If what you say if true then America are treating canada very badly which is worrying.
So you are going to base your opinion on two countries from a biased post?
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username3134
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#26
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#26
The point about America dictating the economic policy of Canada is a good one, if a little extreme. Canada is an industrialised nation. One of the largest in fact, it is, after all, a member of the G8. Members of the Bush administration are incredibly hypocritical when it comes to free trade. They preach its benifets and advantages and try to impose this system on the rest of the world. However, they are probably more protectionist than many other countries in the developed world. Their industries enjoy massive subsidies, and import duties are levied on any foreign goods that threaten American Industry. It is likely that if Canada ever moved to produce such goods, American back-handedness would destroy a market for Canadian produce in the US.

I agree completly that the present White House's ignorance, arrogance and ego-centrism means they care only for themselves and the welfare of their own. The livelihoods of 50,000 Canadian lumber workers is only an issue to them if the flow of cheap resources is jeopardised. (A la The Middle East)
Vienna
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#27
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#27
(Original post by kriztinae)
biased? im not even a cypriot so it doesnt matter if i liked it or not
thats not really what i was suggesting.

it was biased. did u read the Annan Plan for the reunification of cyprus??
circles. we will be going around in them sooner or later.
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Vienna
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#28
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#28
(Original post by canuck)
Vienna95, I have to say, please look into the relationship between canada and the U.S.
ok

Pick up a news magazine, or just read about the terrible comments we canadians say about america.
hmm, im spoilt for impartial judgement!

Lumber is very important to british columbians, it accounts for over 50,000 jobs, when you say it isnt important, you piss of a lot of us.
i) where did i say it wasnt important?
ii) i did say, "a lumber tariff is a significant hinderence on the Canadian economy."

Stop being so ingorant, and look into it.
oops. lets not go down that slippery road.

Yes, canada and the U.S. have the biggest trade going on between its borders, but who have to acknowledge, the U.S. get cheap resources from us, and sells them to japan manufactured for far more the price.
sounds like good business to me.

Many Canadians ask ourselves, "why dont we industrialize, this will create more jobs, thus improving our economy", but we simply cant, If we built lumber mills, more pulp mills, this woulod kill about 30,000 jobs in the U.S., now why do you think this lumber dispute isnt importantm, it is
im a little bothered that you keep fabricating what ive meant to have said. your issues about industrialisation are with your government.

Right, one last note, dont talk down about liberals, They keep our economy going as best as it can, and they do a fine job of it. Yes, liberals have the motto "the sunny side", meaning, the try to please everyone. Conservatives, and NDP, both will ruin our economy.
the economy is not the issue at hand. it was strong but has become sluggish, nonetheless, the job market is strong and thats what matters to people. what evidence is there to show that a conservative party or any other opposition would ruin it anyway?

I know my countries own history very well thank you very much,
im sure you do.


and im not going to let someone else tell me that im misinformed.
you may find debate is not something youre particuarly going to enjoy then.
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Rikku
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#29
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#29
The European elections are going well, allthough it's quite obvious which parties are going to win here
and I'm not Czech, so I can't vote
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Jonatan
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#30
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People dislike America because it is the only superpower left, that far I agree with you. However, it stops there. If you compare the US with the rest of the world, it is a fairly democratic state and human rights stand high. Still, in general people have a deeper hatred towards the US than towards China. This despite of the fact that China is not a democracy, the chinese governments supports surpressive dictators and they have surpressed their own population. The chinese government slaughtered a mass of innocent civilian students, and for what. Because they disliked the government! You dont see stuff like that happening in the US. Still, people hate the US more than any country on the planet. There are a couple of reasons for this:

1: US media is free. Us television shows, newsbroadcasts and movies can critisize the government without suffering from it. Think about it. How much of your anti-american thoughts and ideas come from the US itself to begin with? How many movies projecting the US government as corrupt originates from within the US?

2: The US has most political, military and economical power in the world. Thus when something goes wrong, people blaim the US. Of course it is the US fault that 80% of all countries south of teh equator are dictatorships. Of course it is the US fault for not doing anything when people starve in Africa. No matter what goes wrong you know how to blaim. Either they did not interfere enough, alternatively they interfered to much. Regardless, poverty, surpression and corruption is ALWAYS the US fault.

3: The US will not start a war against us merely because we critisize them. we can sit here with our anti US criticism and we will not be bothered because of it. However, if we were to atack, lets say North Korea, in a similar way you would quickly see a certain dictator trying to indoctrinate the population that it is ok to kill Europeans.

4: Why blaim an innefficient domestic policy when we can blame a people 400km away? Why bother about our own rediculous subsidies of agricultural goods when we can claim any defecit to be due to teh US? Why should France or Germany accept the fact that they aint doing **** to promote democracy and human rights when it is so much easier to let US do the dirty work and then excuse the lack of participation by giving them a huge load of criticism.

Wake up people. Political correctness these days is "The US is bad!". Say that phrase and you "are in the club". Try to think for yourself and people fry you for supporting "the evil empire".
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Jonatan
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#31
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#31
(Original post by kriztinae)
and the UN is any good?
i assure u it is somehow controlled by america
it proved it to me when the plan for cyprus's reunification was biased
I assume the so called "us controll" of the UN was what caused the Security Council to vote down further resolutions on Iraq prior to the conflict. I also suppose that this US "controll" of teh UN is why doussins of resolutions the US vote against slip through teh General assembly. Please give us a break. US - UN relations are at their worst since the organisation was created, and you claim that the US controlls it? Of course, the fact that the US has a few doussing quarels with the UN is irrelevant , cus one single resolution you beleive is unfair certainly proves that the US controlls the UN. Im sure you would get an A in a logic test.
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randdom
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#32
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#32
(Original post by vienna95)
because you hate their FOREIGN policy? but not the people that live there of course!
no I would rather live in canada because America politics are too right wing for me, I am not keen on their lack of free healthcare. I don't like the large numbers of guns. I don't think it is such a safe place to live as canada.


why is it worrying?
It is worrying if what is said in the original post is correct.
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material breach
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Jonatan)
People dislike America because it is the only superpower left, that far I agree with you. However, it stops there. If you compare the US with the rest of the world, it is a fairly democratic state and human rights stand high. Still, in general people have a deeper hatred towards the US than towards China. This despite of the fact that China is not a democracy, the chinese governments supports surpressive dictators and they have surpressed their own population. The chinese government slaughtered a mass of innocent civilian students, and for what. Because they disliked the government! You dont see stuff like that happening in the US. Still, people hate the US more than any country on the planet. There are a couple of reasons for this:
ok, yes i hate the human rights abusers more than i hate the US goverment, but that isnt the issue we are discusing here
(Original post by Jonatan)
1: US media is free. Us television shows, newsbroadcasts and movies can critisize the government without suffering from it. Think about it. How much of your anti-american thoughts and ideas come from the US itself to begin with? How many movies projecting the US government as corrupt originates from within the US?
but is the media free? the newspapers are owned by the rich with set political agendas, and i doubt they do, my qualms with america come from watching things like children running from villages in vietnam covered in agent orange which is burning their skin.
(Original post by Jonatan)
2: The US has most political, military and economical power in the world. Thus when something goes wrong, people blaim the US. Of course it is the US fault that 80% of all countries south of teh equator are dictatorships. Of course it is the US fault for not doing anything when people starve in Africa. No matter what goes wrong you know how to blaim. Either they did not interfere enough, alternatively they interfered to much. Regardless, poverty, surpression and corruption is ALWAYS the US fault.
yes but it is the US's fault when a democratically elected government falls due to the fact that CIA was funding the rebels
and if the US did not claim it was acting for the good of the world then we wouldn't have a problem
(Original post by Jonatan)
3: The US will not start a war against us merely because we critisize them. we can sit here with our anti US criticism and we will not be bothered because of it. However, if we were to atack, lets say North Korea, in a similar way you would quickly see a certain dictator trying to indoctrinate the population that it is ok to kill Europeans.
US foreign policy has killed far more innocent people than north korea's has
(Original post by Jonatan)
4: Why blaim an innefficient domestic policy when we can blame a people 400km away? Why bother about our own rediculous subsidies of agricultural goods when we can claim any defecit to be due to teh US? Why should France or Germany accept the fact that they aint doing **** to promote democracy and human rights when it is so much easier to let US do the dirty work and then excuse the lack of participation by giving them a huge load of criticism.
agreed, but at least german and france are trying to do something about pollution, afterall is it right for a population so small in global terms to produce such a large amount of the waste, causing acid rain, global warming and the destruction of natural habitats
(Original post by Jonatan)
Wake up people. Political correctness these days is "The US is bad!". Say that phrase and you "are in the club". Try to think for yourself and people fry you for supporting "the evil empire".
or maybe it is you in the club? this is all about perception of events and i wouldnt be so sure if that you have the right interpretation
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Jonatan
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Speciez99)

US foreign policy has killed far more innocent people than north korea's has
I am not going to answer to all you postings (partially because I accept some of what you claim and partially because it would make comming posts 3 miles long) however with this one I think it is worth noticing a few things. First of all American foreign policy has been far from constant. Second, American foreign policy has also saved many innocent civilians. Several countries, including Taiwan, South Korea and Kuwait owe their independence to America. Europe has had a policy of isolationism which has caused many civilian deaths. The worst genecides in our history has mainly been due to failure of other nations to interfere. the US were wrong to take action in Vietnam, but European ignorance of teh situation in Kosovo and Jugoslavia is not much better. Sure, teh US has many deaths on its hands , but Europe is far from innocent. I do not object to balanced and justified criticism of the US, but what I object to is when people start proclamating anti-americanism as if it was a new religion. MAny left wingers regard teh US as the devil above all devils. To critisize the US for the atrocities in Iraq is one thing. To generalise and claim the problems of teh world to be due to US culture is rediculous. The US is a source of many evils, but it has also been central in promoting human righst democracy and development. Ignorant views, which florish in Europe now, are giving the US a lot of unjustified ****. Take the media for a start. Have you read The Economist lately? Did you see the cover reading Rumsfeld, resign! after the atrocities in Iraq became known? What about 60 minutes? Is that show also merely playing in the hands of the Bush administration? Seems strange that they cronically critisize them then. Claiming that US media is controlled by the rich and used to indoctrinate the population is far to ignorant. British BBC has higher standard than US media, but the BBC is exceptionally professional. The rest of teh Europe media has standards which are comparable or lower than in the US.
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Jonatan
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#35
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#35
(Original post by randdom)
It is worrying if what is said in the original post is correct.
Thats a big IF.
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material breach
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Jonatan)
I am not going to answer to all you postings (partially because I accept some of what you claim and partially because it would make comming posts 3 miles long) however with this one I think it is worth noticing a few things. First of all American foreign policy has been far from constant. Second, American foreign policy has also saved many innocent civilians. Several countries, including Taiwan, South Korea and Kuwait owe their independence to America. Europe has had a policy of isolationism which has caused many civilian deaths. The worst genecides in our history has mainly been due to failure of other nations to interfere. the US were wrong to take action in Vietnam, but European ignorance of teh situation in Kosovo and Jugoslavia is not much better. Sure, teh US has many deaths on its hands , but Europe is far from innocent. I do not object to balanced and justified criticism of the US, but what I object to is when people start proclamating anti-americanism as if it was a new religion. MAny left wingers regard teh US as the devil above all devils. To critisize the US for the atrocities in Iraq is one thing. To generalise and claim the problems of teh world to be due to US culture is rediculous. The US is a source of many evils, but it has also been central in promoting human righst democracy and development. Ignorant views, which florish in Europe now, are giving the US a lot of unjustified ****. Take the media for a start. Have you read The Economist lately? Did you see the cover reading Rumsfeld, resign! after the atrocities in Iraq became known? What about 60 minutes? Is that show also merely playing in the hands of the Bush administration? Seems strange that they cronically critisize them then. Claiming that US media is controlled by the rich and used to indoctrinate the population is far to ignorant. British BBC has higher standard than US media, but the BBC is exceptionally professional. The rest of teh Europe media has standards which are comparable or lower than in the US.
i accept that, your first post came over a just abit too pro american for my liking but i realise with some of the loonies in this site that is hardly suprising
i couldnt comment on european media and hadnt i haven't read the economist recently altho i will look out for it

i think that there is alot that US also gets away scott free with, why do you think the astrocities in iraq should be free of blame?
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randdom
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Jonatan)
Thats a big IF.
I know that America do impose tariffs quite a lot.
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Jonatan
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#38
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(Original post by Speciez99)
i accept that, your first post came over a just abit too pro american for my liking but i realise with some of the loonies in this site that is hardly suprising
i couldnt comment on european media and hadnt i haven't read the economist recently altho i will look out for it

i think that there is alot that US also gets away scott free with, why do you think the astrocities in iraq should be free of blame?
I didnt say I thought so. Im just saying that if you should critisize a US policy or action then do so explicitly and pick something recent (Vietnam is mainly interesting as a comparision of recent evenst now. It becomes quite silly to critisize the current US government by quoting vietnam as an example of US policy).
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material breach
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Jonatan)
I didnt say I thought so. Im just saying that if you should critisize a US policy or action then do so explicitly and pick something recent (Vietnam is mainly interesting as a comparision of recent evenst now. It becomes quite silly to critisize the current US government by quoting vietnam as an example of US policy).
As much as you may disagree US policy in the main has not changed much, its governed by the a very few simple principles
1. our national intetests first
2. the americas to be free of governement which are intolerent of our system
3. protect our trade as much as possible since trade is good for the US

Vietnam is an example of the US interfering in the affairs of another country illegally, something that the US has done many times to try and infulence the situation for its own gain. Personnally if the US has done that in the past and nothing has changed in the aims of the policy why shouldnt it do it again? That makes vietnam a very powerful arguement
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zizero
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#40
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(Original post by Speciez99)
but is the media free? the newspapers are owned by the rich with set political agendas, and i doubt they do, my qualms with america come from watching things like children running from villages in vietnam covered in agent orange which is burning their skin.
You just brilliantly illustrated how free the US media really is!

The Vietnam War was probably the first war in history where the media (particularly television) had full access to the action. The US government gave them an unbelievable amount of freedom: Reporters could embed themselves with US soldiers, they could film everything they wanted to, the government even provided helicopters for the!

The result was that pictures and video footage of the realities of war reached American living-rooms. The media used their freedoms to give a very real account of the horrors of war.

This was probably the single most important reason why the US government lost at the "home-front" (i.e. it lost public support for the war). As a result of that, the US eventually decided to not send even more troops to Vietnam. With hindsight, this caused their defeat. Had they sent more people in, had they fought with full commitment, they would probably have won. Indeed, the "Tet offensive" was a poker move by the Vietcong. They sent in all they had. Had the US fought more decisively, had they managed to respond properly to the "Tet offensive", Ho-Chi-Minh would have had nothing left to fight.

The Vietnam war was a public-relations disaster. The US had made the mistake to believe that truthful reporting of a war cannot have a decisive effect on the home-front.

They learned from their mistakes and never again took such a liberal stance towards war-time journalism. You only have to look at the second Gulf-War: Access to battle-scenes was very restricted for journalists. Everything they broadcasted from Iraq was subject to censorship.

My point? The story about Vietnam shows that American instincts tend to promote freedom of speech and specifically of the media. Having not had any significant experience with free modern-day media coverage of war, they decided a priori to go for a liberal stance.
It turned out to have practical disadvantages, that's why they don't apply it in wars anymore.
Yet, it goes to show, that fundamentally, Americans value freedom of speech greatly.

The very fact that you saw those pictures of children suffering in Vietnam proves that the US media is free. Those "large corporations" certainly did not have any interest in showing the suffering of war.

BTW, you're probably referring to the famous picture of the little girl running away from her village after it was bombed. It is the most famous image of the Vietnam War. The girl was not covered with Agent Orange, but with napalm.
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