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    (Original post by vienna95)
    there is a difference between pedantic and accurate.
    the US does not have supreme control of these countries, although in the case of the Phillipines this was the case. the nature of the US economy effects the world as do alot of the decisions they take. that is a natural consequence. the difference is that these countries make their own decisions in regard to their relationship with the US, irrespective of whether it may be in their interests or not to do so. Hawaii and the Virgin Islands are examples of US Imperialism.

    you weren't and nor are you now being accurate - your slight comment on the meaning of Imperialism is a deviationist tactic - you admit yourself Hawaii and The Virgin Islands are colonies, thus the US is an Imperial power in any case,

    if you want to be pedantic - what do you mean in terms of Imperialism? 18th or 19th century Imperialism, Hobsonian Imperialism or neo-Imperialism?
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    you weren't and nor are you now being accurate - your slight comment on the meaning of Imperialism is a deviationist tactic -
    it was my understanding that you alleged the US was largely imperialistic and listed a number of countries to support this.

    you: "since then, they've been engaged in active and covert imperialism

    Phillipines, Panama, Chile, Nicaragua, South Korea, South Vietnam, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Lebanon, Mexico, South Africa, Afghanistan, Grenada etc..."

    i question this, "if you could tell me how the US has supreme or sovereign power over each of these states id be more than happy" and provide you with my definition to aid your appreciation of my query.

    you: "to be openly candid - i just cannot be bothered with becoming pedantic over lexicographical definition"

    so you dont actually provide an explanation. i cite that its not pedantic to actually rationally demonstrate your argument.


    you admit yourself Hawaii and The Virgin Islands are colonies, thus the US is an Imperial power in any case,
    but they are two states I cited to demonstrate the difference between actual colonies and the nations you listed. my original request was for you to justify your claims.

    if you want to be pedantic - what do you mean in terms of Imperialism? 18th or 19th century Imperialism, Hobsonian Imperialism or neo-Imperialism?
    i dont, i want to be accurate as stressed. i gave a broad definition of Imperialism, when requesting you justify your comment.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it was my understanding that you alleged the US was largely imperialistic and listed a number of countries to support this.

    you: "since then, they've been engaged in active and covert imperialism

    Phillipines, Panama, Chile, Nicaragua, South Korea, South Vietnam, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Lebanon, Mexico, South Africa, Afghanistan, Grenada etc..."

    i question this, "if you could tell me how the US has supreme or sovereign power over each of these states id be more than happy" and provide you with my definition to aid your appreciation of my query.

    you: "to be openly candid - i just cannot be bothered with becoming pedantic over lexicographical definition"

    so you dont actually provide an explanation. i cite that its not pedantic to actually rationally demonstrate your argument.




    but they are two states I cited to demonstrate the difference between actual colonies and the nations you listed. my original request was for you to justify your claims.



    i dont, i want to be accurate as stressed. i gave a broad definition of Imperialism, when requesting you justify your comment.

    The Philippines were a colony, no more or no less, of the USA. I believe it was officially called a "mandate" (just like the UK obtained Iraq and France Syria and Lebanon after WW1).
    Puerto Rico is a colony, it was obtained after the Spanish-American war. It's thinking of becoming the next US state but mostly due to financial need than to cultural aspiration to become true Americans.
    The U.S. Virgin Islands (part of the islands are also a British territory), Hawaii, the Marshall Islands (now independent) were or are colonies.

    It's definetely hypocritical for the U.S. government to state that colonialism was evil, just to do the same thing.
    When depicted in movies, it's shown as some evil force but in many ways, it had positive aspects too. I'm sure some Indians are quite happy about the fact that they certain infrastructures, have English as an official language.
    Of course it brought many terrible things with it but let's not forget that at the time, most societies were evil and doing evil stuff. If they weren't doing horrible things to other countries, it was usually because they couldn't.

    Vienna95, I don't think you have to defend everything that's American. I don't think Canuck truly hates the US. Hell, there's a lot to admire the U.S. for but when you get the impression that your country's culture is slowly disappearing, it's not something you're too proud of. I think in the case of Canada, there are more reasons to complain about the reaction of Canadians with regard to American influence than reasons to complain about the actual influence.

    I think the USA is a great country and there are many nice people there. But there's definetely something uncontrolable to dislike about the Americans: that cultural influence that seems everywhere. I'm not even sure we can really say any Americans are responsible for it, it's quite inevitable.
    As for values, I much prefer the values behind Canada than those behind the creation of the USA.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    It's definetely hypocritical for the U.S. government to state that colonialism was evil, just to do the same thing.
    Hawaii and the Virgin Islands. im sure Britain has more colonial territory.

    Vienna95, I don't think you have to defend everything that's American.
    i was pointing out that none of the countries listed, used to prove rabid US imperialism,were actually US colonies.

    Hell, there's a lot to admire the U.S. for but when you get the impression that your country's culture is slowly disappearing, it's not something you're too proud of. I think in the case of Canada, there are more reasons to complain about the reaction of Canadians with regard to American influence than reasons to complain about the actual influence.
    if your culture is disappearing, its time to examine yourself, not pass it off as American imperialism. american culture fills a void.

    I think the USA is a great country and there are many nice people there. But there's definetely something uncontrolable to dislike about the Americans: that cultural influence that seems everywhere. I'm not even sure we can really say any Americans are responsible for it, it's quite inevitable.
    As for values, I much prefer the values behind Canada than those behind the creation of the USA.
    thats your opinion. but you basically dislike the US because they have a robust social fabric that Canada gladly accepts and enjoys. its also more saddening to see you dislike Americans because of your own discomfort with the changing face of Canadian society.
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    Vienna 95, you havent said one thing critical about the U.S. and anything you admit to, you just compare it to other countries. Yes I acknowledge that it is partly canada's fault for its disapearing culture. I think canada had the potential to be as big of a power as the U.S., but its geographic location it a major facture it isnt. if you look at australia, it retains its culture very well, and so does New Zealand. Another factor that ruins canadian culture is its French population, Many Canadians reconize that english canada was sacrificed to retain the disapearing french culture. Thus, today, French canadian culture is very rich compared to English canadians. There are some exceptions. Victoria, British columbia, has a rich British culture of the Victorian age. This city is very beautifull and many British flags still fly around the city, The city is very poplutated with European cars, and those big red buses, are vibrant around the city. The atlantic provinces are very conservative, and look into thier British roots a lot better than the average Canadian. Many in newfoundland have a bit of a British accent, and fell more close the Britain. Its in ontario, and the pararie provinces, where american "red neck" culture is more apearant.

    What im worried about, is todays young people, have there head in the clouds, its very sad and depressing. I watch a bit of american T.V. too, its a bit addicting. One of the viehcles i drive is a Ford F-150, and i wear american clothes. Im the average Canadian, a person who is as much american as your average californian.

    Although, I am one of the few who see what is happening, I will probably leave this country, I hate having to live without a national identity. Canada should be ashamed of itsself, i wont deny that.

    Chinese imperialism - Tibet

    The U.S. imperialism – Hawaii

    Soviet Imperialism – East Germany

    U.S. Imperialism – West Germany

    French Imperialism – Algeria

    U.S. Imperialism – Post Vichy France

    Russian Imperialism – Chechnya

    U.S. Imperialism – Yugoslavia

    U.S. Atrocity – a couple nudie pics from Abu Ghraib Prison

    Russian Atrocity – a few million civilians raped on the road to Berlin

    U.S. Atrocity – toppling Saddam Hussein

    I repeat U.S. Atrocity – toppling Saddam Hussein

    …maybe you didn’t catch that - U.S Atrocity – Toppling Saddam Hussein

    The U.S. doesn’t make someone watch their movies, eat their food, and accept their culture at gunpoint. Hyperbole aside, it doesn’t. [If adulating another’s culture is imperialism, Britain might as well have declared America a colony by the ‘60s] Other countries do. I’ll reserve my hatred for them.
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    Does the word Imperialism not imply that we actually keep the territory we gain? What about all the areas that we have given back up? For example we gave up the philipines. Hawaii was mentioned earlier, obviously you don't know that for a place to become a state the people have to want it to be a state. This is why Puerto Rico isn't a state. They are happy to get most of the benefits of citizenship without having to pay taxes.
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    (Original post by UTH)
    Chinese imperialism - Tibet

    The U.S. imperialism – Hawaii

    Soviet Imperialism – East Germany

    U.S. Imperialism – West Germany

    French Imperialism – Algeria

    U.S. Imperialism – Post Vichy France

    Russian Imperialism – Chechnya

    U.S. Imperialism – Yugoslavia

    U.S. Atrocity – a couple nudie pics from Abu Ghraib Prison

    Russian Atrocity – a few million civilians raped on the road to Berlin

    The U.S. doesn’t make someone watch their movies, eat their food, and accept their culture at gunpoint. Hyperbole aside, it doesn’t. [If adulating another’s culture is imperialism, Britain might as well have declared America a colony by the ‘60s] Other countries do. I’ll reserve my hatred for them.
    at least someone is going in the right direction.

    although, just to clarify, Yugoslavia is not an example of Imperialism and im struggling to really see any Imperial intent in W.Germany or France
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    (Original post by moncal)
    Does the word Imperialism not imply that we actually keep the territory we gain? What about all the areas that we have given back up?
    it means that the US relinquishes supreme political power(if it ever obtained it). in the cases above, the US had no dream of obtaining or retaining colonial power over W.Germany or France, god forbid Yugoslavia. its reasons for entrance were not ones of Imperial intent and occupation here was on very different basis than the British ventures in India or the reach of the USSR.
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    (Original post by canuck)
    Vienna 95, you havent said one thing critical about the U.S. and anything you admit to, you just compare it to other countries.
    i respond to comments i disagree with. since a vast proportion of criticism relates to the US, it is not unusual that this is also reflective in the frequency of my posting. the things i disagree with the US or the Bush administration on have barely been touched upon here and are usually clouded by the low-level, 'Bush looks like a monkey' drivel that would unite Democrat and Republican alike.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i respond to comments i disagree with. since a vast proportion of criticism relates to the US, it is not unusual that this is also reflective in the frequency of my posting. the things i disagree with the US or the Bush administration on have barely been touched upon here and are usually clouded by the low-level, 'Bush looks like a monkey' drivel that would unite Democrat and Republican alike.
    I've always thought he looked more like a panda...but anyway...can I ask what you dislike about the US/Bush Adminastration?

    (Original post by vienna95)
    although, just to clarify, Yugoslavia is not an example of Imperialism and im struggling to really see any Imperial intent in W.Germany or France
    The sun rising in the East is an example of imperialism. [Don't be so quick to forget their aggression against the moon in 1969] No need to dwell on technicalities here.
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    (Original post by UTH)
    The sun rising in the East is an example of imperialism. [Don't be so quick to forget their aggression against the moon in 1969] No need to dwell on technicalities here.
    Isn't that what debate is? Argueing about the "technicalities"?
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    (Original post by UTH)
    The sun rising in the East is an example of imperialism. [Don't be so quick to forget their aggression against the moon in 1969] No need to dwell on technicalities here.
    im truly lost.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    im truly lost.
    me too
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    (Original post by Cossack)
    me too
    I don't think that he even knows what he was talking about.

    U.S landing on the moon - not imperialism

    Sun rising - not imperialism either


    With some of these examples, they might as well be.

    Oh well, at least I'm getting a laugh out of this.

    sarcasm
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    (Original post by Cossack)
    I've always thought he looked more like a panda...but anyway...can I ask what you dislike about the US/Bush Adminastration?
    me thinks she is going to avoid the question, i will bet rep if you want?
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    me thinks she is going to avoid the question,
    like this?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    like this?
    yes like that (god this is a waste of a effort)
 
 
 
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