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Why we think we hate america. watch

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    (Original post by cellochickee)
    !"

    The correct people to attack would be the few men up at the top that are ruining your time... Like George W. Bush. Now there is someone to complain about!
    ]

    heh, yeah...
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    (Original post by cellochickee)
    Well *I* am American... and personally I prefer Canada.

    Although the original poster does make some good points about why America isn't that great, I dislike the way he/she presented him/herself in such an uneducated manner.

    It is one thing to attack the US government, but another thing to attack the US people.

    Understand, my Canadian friend, that as an American I do not say "Hey... let's try and assimilate those Canadians! It will be fun! Then after that we can get fat, shoot guns, and be mean to everyone!"

    The correct people to attack would be the few men up at the top that are ruining your time... Like George W. Bush. Now there is someone to complain about!
    Sorry, I don't agree with that comment one bit. There is such a thing as national character. There are reasons why Americans have an excessive number of guns, problems with violence, why they have problems with obesity, why they have the highest level of teenage pregnancy in the Western world.
    National character is based on historical events, on traditions and is passed on from generation to generation. It's not something you can just pinpoint by looking at one individual or a group of individuals. It's something that seems to present in a considerable number of individuals in such a way, that it seems like it represents the country.
    In American national character, a lot of the values that are represented come from puritanism (though they hate the idea of having most of their values coming from religious rejects from England and other protestants).
    It's not all about politicians, who more than often have to choose what the majority of the population wants to see done (the Iraq war might be considered an exception).

    As for their responsibility for influencing Canada culturally, of course, I'd see more people who are responsible for this on the Canadian side of the border than on the American side.
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    (Original post by Outrageous)
    No need to be patronizing. I am well aware of thsoe places and the figure you listed is actually the figure of arabs & christians in total in that area. At least according to the second link I think.

    http://www.jerusalemites.org/history_of_palestine/2.htm

    And the hungarian zionist, Theodor Herzl, in the 1880s wrote the "Der Juden Stat", there were 600.000 palestinians christians and muslims. In addition the jewish population only made up 8% hereof. By all means if I am wrong, correct me. I am sure you have your references.

    So which is it?

    I am sure if you look at it from the other point of view you will find equal amount of frustration. Its not easy loving your enemy when you have been deprived of and expelled from your homes. You have failed to even remotely comment the tactics used by the israeli government (its important that we distinguish between government and people because the people do actually get along and want peace. I find its the governments on both sides which are the trouble makers and Sharon is no angel).

    So there are two people suffering but only one people are expelled from their homes and you ask them to show what? Patience? Love? Peace? I am sure they might find time for that whilst being imprisoned, assualted, watching their homes being bulldozered upon. Yes they most certainly will have the time. Its beyond you and mine grasp how it feels to be a second class citizen so let us not pretend. If there is animosity there is a reason. Their land was taken from them.

    I know you don't agree and thats cool. But I would like your comment on the link provided. Its gives a historical outline. Is that incorrect, you think?

    http://www.jerusalemites.org/history_of_palestine/
    Checked out that link, it seems to show statistics for the 1880s. During the British mandate
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/index.php

    The figures given (in the Western part of the Mandate which is now Israel+West Bank...) were 600 000 Jews, 1.2 million Arabs
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_overview.php

    I think this problem is so complex, it's really hard to understand completely. If your statistics are right, it would seem there was a mass immigration from 1880, which seems quite surprising since the Jews reproached the Brits for stopping Jewish immigration...
    What a mess...
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    Checked out that link, it seems to show statistics for the 1880s. During the British mandate
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/index.php

    The figures given (in the Western part of the Mandate which is now Israel+West Bank...) were 600 000 Jews, 1.2 million Arabs
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_overview.php

    I think this problem is so complex, it's really hard to understand completely. If your statistics are right, it would seem there was a mass immigration from 1880, which seems quite surprising since the Jews reproached the Brits for stopping Jewish immigration...
    What a mess...

    Well Sam, we seem to be getting closer some clearence on this issue.

    You are not exactly right about your figures. Here is why;

    "between 1882-1947, in successive waves of immigration, some 543,000 Jews immigrated to Palestine, joining the 24,000 who lived there. During the first three years of statehood (1948-1950) the average annual growth rate of the Jewish population was about 24 percent, and between 1948-1952, mass immigration of 711,000 supplemented a population of 630,000."

    Source: http://netec.mcc.ac.uk/WoPEc/data/Pa...zadpsdp89.html

    Others agree: "By 1880, about 24,000 Jews were living in Palestine, out of a population of about 400,000. At about that time, the Ottoman government imposed severe restrictions on Jewish immigration and land purchase. These were evaded in various ways by Jews seeking to colonize Palestine."

    Beginning in the late 1800's, oppression of Jews in Eastern Europe catalyzed emigration of Jews to Palestine. (...) At the same time, Palestine's Arab population grew rapidly. By 1914, the total population of Palestine stood at about 700,000. About 615,000 were Arabs, and 85,000 to 100,000 were Jews.

    source: http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhisto...dern%20History

    "The Jews living in Palestine in the last half of the nineteenth century and the early twentieth century-about 25,000 among 500,000 Arabs-were generally poor, living in squalid, crowded city housing and dependent for their sustenance on donations from Jews living abroad. After small groups of Jews fleeing the Russian Pale of Settlement began arriving in the early 1880s, (..)"

    Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...lenpillars.htm

    "In the post-war era, again, anti-Semitism fueled a Zionist psychosis across the former Eastern Bloc, ultimately unleashing another mass immigration to Israel. "

    Source: http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/1...mns.39021.html

    I have attempted to take as many different sources as possible so not be biased. I find the same results everywhere. Feel free to look yourself.

    So you see, Sam, your notion that there was not a mass immigration is wrong. There was indeed a mass immigration and not just from eastern europe and Russia but also from other arab countries. 2.500 left Yemen for instance. The above figures speak for themselves.

    So pure populationwise, the land was predominantly palestinian and they were there for more than 400 years. Historical briefing below:

    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early.php
 
 
 
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