Wuy
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Hi all, so I did the four year Natural Sciences degree(BA+Msci), and got 2.i in my part ii tripos which i guess is the overall class of my BA(part 1a was a 2, and part 1B was a first)? I got 2.ii in my part iii tripos which is the class of my Msci? I am just wondering when it comes to job application, can i put on my cv that my undergraduate classification is 2.i and my postgraudate master's degree is 2.ii?

The issue is that the classfication is not on the degree certificate as most of you know and on the transcript it just says part 1a, 1b, 2, 3 without stating the difference between my BA and Msci which is really confusing to read, also the MSci is classified as undergraduate for student loan purposes which doesn't really help.... Another alternative is get a letter from the college which explains the result.

The reason I am asking is that the job application favours applicant with a master's degree which is what I have...So what do you guys think?
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Doones
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Not an expert... but I think you can say you have a BA (Hons) 2.i , plus MSci (2.ii if asked to declare the class ) The MSci entitles you to apply for jobs that requires a MSc.

But I'm sure others will be along to confirm/deny soon...
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Wuy
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(Original post by jneill)
Not an expert... but I think you can say you have a BA (Hons) 2.i , plus MSci (2.ii if asked to declare the class ) The MSci entitles you to apply for jobs that requires a MSc.

But I'm sure others will be along to confirm/deny soon...
Thanks, I will actually ask for a letter from the registry to state my results
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Quantumchem
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(Original post by Wuy)
Hi all, so I did the four year Natural Sciences degree(BA+Msci), and got 2.i in my part ii tripos which i guess is the overall class of my BA(part 1a was a 2, and part 1B was a first)? I got 2.ii in my part iii tripos which is the class of my Msci? I am just wondering when it comes to job application, can i put on my cv that my undergraduate classification is 2.i and my postgraudate master's degree is 2.ii?

The issue is that the classfication is not on the degree certificate as most of you know and on the transcript it just says part 1a, 1b, 2, 3 without stating the difference between my BA and Msci which is really confusing to read, also the MSci is classified as undergraduate for student loan purposes which doesn't really help.... Another alternative is get a letter from the college which explains the result.

The reason I am asking is that the job application favours applicant with a master's degree which is what I have...So what do you guys think?
You can't say that your postgraduate masters was anything, because the natsci masters is an undergraduate masters (you didn't graduate at the end of 3 years). You can say BA 2.i MSci 2.ii if you want, and the transcript will show them that you were getting a 2.i up until your final year.

If you're not asked to declare the class then don't, and you can always have a breakdown on your CV that shows your BA was a 2.i.
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Doones
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(Original post by Quantumchem)
You can't say that your postgraduate masters was anything, because the natsci masters is an undergraduate masters (you didn't graduate at the end of 3 years). You can say BA 2.i MSci 2.ii if you want, and the transcript will show them that you were getting a 2.i up until your final year.

If you're not asked to declare the class then don't, and you can always have a breakdown on your CV that shows your BA was a 2.i.
So if you have an integrated Masters (MMath, MEng, MSci, etc) you can't apply for a job asking for a MSc? Are you sure?
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Quantumchem
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(Original post by jneill)
So if you have an integrated Masters (MMath, MEng, MSci, etc) you can't apply for a job asking for a MSc? Are you sure?
Yes you can, just it isn't a postgraduate masters qualification. It's effectively the same thing, just you don't graduate between the BA and the MSci (unless you're an external maths part III, but that's another story).
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(Original post by Quantumchem)
Yes you can, just it isn't a postgraduate masters qualification. It's effectively the same thing, just you don't graduate between the BA and the MSci (unless you're an external maths part III, but that's another story).
I know that - but you are telling OP they can't say they have a Masters which they basically do have. If an employer is setting a MSc requirement then surely they wouldn't want to exclude MSci candidates.
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(Original post by jneill)
I know that - but you are telling OP they can't say they have a Masters which they basically do have. If an employer is setting a MSc requirement then surely they wouldn't want to exclude MSci candidates.
No I'm not, I'mm telling OP they can't say that their masters was a POSTGRADUATE qualification, because it wasn't. OP should tell them they have a masters, and if requested specify the class, but shouldn't tell the employer that it was a postgraduate masters, and hence entirely separate from the undergraduate degree, because it wasn't.
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(Original post by jneill)
I know that - but you are telling OP they can't say they have a Masters which they basically do have. If an employer is setting a MSc requirement then surely they wouldn't want to exclude MSci candidates.
Cambridge's degree system is a bit strange. Integral master is NOT a proper master's degree, unlike MPhil (which is not quite same as other uni's MPhil....)
I think it's depend on an employer whether they'd accept Cambridge graduate with Msci/Meng/etc for the position they require a master's degree. But those two shouldn't be mixed up, deliberately. when applying for a job, as they're not the same qualification at all.
My niece declares her undergraduate degree as BA/MEng because that's what she graduated with as an undergraduate and her master's degree is MPhil Engineering.
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(Original post by vincrows)
Cambridge's degree system is a bit strange. Integral master is not quite a proper master's degree, unlike MPhil (which is not quite same as other uni's MPhil....)
I think it's depend on an employer whether they'd accept Cambridge graduate with Msci/Meng/etc for the position they require a master's degree.
My niece declares her undergraduate degree as BA/MEng because that's what she graduated with as an undergraduate and her master's degree is MPhil Engineering.
It's not just Cambridge. An MEng is a very common integrated masters across all UK unis.
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(Original post by jneill)
It's not just Cambridge. An MEng is a very common integrated masters across all UK unis.
Ok. Still it not a master's degree.

Edit: just checked her website. She only has 'MEng' as her undergraduate degree, no BA now.
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(Original post by vincrows)
Ok. Still it not a master's degree.

Edit: just checked her website. She only has 'MEng' as her undergraduate degree, no BA now.
It is. It's a Master of Engineering. It's equivalent to BSc + MSc. The fact of it being taken as an undergraduate is, ahem, academic. e.g. you can proceed to a PhD from an MEng without needing to do an MSc.
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MEng is a Level 7 qualification. Same as MSc.

https://nationalcareersservice.direc...ionsTable.aspx
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Baron of Sealand
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Can you actually say you have both a BA and an MSci? You didn't graduate, were you admitted to a BA?
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(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
Can you actually say you have both a BA and an MSci? You didn't graduate, were you admitted to a BA?
I think it's the same for MSci, but certainly for a Cambridge MEng you get the BA awarded for the 3rd year. (And the MA later too...). Three degrees for the price of one!
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(Original post by jneill)
I think it's the same for MSci, but certainly for a Cambridge MEng you get the BA awarded for the 3rd year. (And the MA later too...). Three degrees for the price of one!
OK. But that'd still be two, not three. The BA gets converted into an MA. Not two degrees.

And if you then do another degree at Oxford or Trinity College Dublin, you technically get another BA/MA when you incorporate.

But regardless, that's just dishonest.
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Quantumchem
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(Original post by jneill)
It is. It's a Master of Engineering. It's equivalent to BSc + MSc. The fact of it being taken as an undergraduate is, ahem, academic. e.g. you can proceed to a PhD from an MEng without needing to do an MSc.
Yes you're right, it is still a masters degree. The point about it being undergraduate being purely academic is also true, unless somebody is claiming that they have it as a separate postgraduate qualification (because integrated masters are generally different to standalone as they are strongly linked to the undergraduate course). This doesn't make an integrated masters less valuable, just different.

(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
Can you actually say you have both a BA and an MSci? You didn't graduate, were you admitted to a BA?
Yes you can say you have both, you get both degree certificates when you graduate, so you actually come out with 2 degrees.
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(Original post by jneill)
I think it's the same for MSci, but certainly for a Cambridge MEng you get the BA awarded for the 3rd year. (And the MA later too...). Three degrees for the price of one!
I think you're not actually awarded the BA until you actually graduate, but even if you dropped out during the masters year you could graduate at the end of it to get the BA, so my point is entirely academic here!
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(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
OK. But that'd still be two, not three. The BA gets converted into an MA. Not two degrees.

And if you then do another degree at Oxford or Trinity College Dublin, you technically get another BA/MA when you incorporate.

But regardless, that's just dishonest.
Do you have to hand in your BA certificate to swap it for the MA?
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(Original post by jneill)
Do you have to hand in your BA certificate to swap it for the MA?
No, and ever if you do, you can always say you've lost it. But in technical and legal terms, you hold one, not two degrees. It changes from a BA to an MA; just like people converting their PGDE into a Master of Teaching. But on your CV you can probably say the years in which you have been awarded the degrees, in which case you can pretend to have both a BA and an MA. But that's just dishonest.

But then it's dishonest to pretend that a BA is really a master's anyway.

If someone does a BA at Oxford and moves to Cambridge for his MPhil, and Trinity College Dublin for his PhD, in the end he can list these:

MA (Oxon) MA MPhil (Cantab) MA PhD (Dublin)

5 degrees for the price of 3.
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