Have Dave Cameron/Stuart Rose got it wrong over EU?

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Stewie2011
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Seems to me they are more concerned with business/trade concerns and not the main concern of the majority of the population which is immigration. Cameron seems only concerned with business or power politics renegotiations and ignores renegoitions on the immigration/movement of people in Europe issue altogether. Looks to me choice of Stuart Rose to head up Yes camp sign is a poor choice emphasing Tories concern of just those of business and not the population at large.
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tengentoppa
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That's because immigration is a non-starter since freedom of movement is a cornerstone of the EU. Reducing EU immigration won't come through negotiation but through Cameron's proposals, articulated before the general election, to make claiming benefits more difficult for EU migrants. This should disincentivise all and sundry from coming.

He also has far more support on making business in the EU more easy. Germany, the Netherlands and several other EU countries are pro-reform in this regard so it's a realistic target.

Also, business has always been the priority for the government and also for people in general. If people think staying in the EU will help their job prospects then they won't risk leaving.

I'd like him to push harder on leaving the CAP, but overall I think his approach is good. It remains to be seen what reform he will actually manage to get.
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ByEeek
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When companies start leaving the UK in droves leaving an unemployed desert, immigration will be the least of our worries. Of course that is speculation on my part, but the big Scottish banks were ready to jump ship had Scotland declared independence. Business in general is pro European. There is no law that says they have to do business in the UK if uncertainty were to fall across our land as part of an EU exit.

I don't know why immigration is the biggest issue right now. We have full control over our borders with regard to non EU citizens yet somehow, 200,000 people from outside the EU still landed on our shores in the last year. So if we can't stop people coming in now, I have no idea why anyone thinks we can stop people coming if we are independent of the EU.
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Roofas
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The argument that the economy would suffer is nonsense anyway. It's just eurocrats in Brussels trying to frighten us into staying, like when they tried to bully us into the disastrous Euro by claiming that all of London's business would flock to Frankfurt if we didn't. What a load of crap, London has returned to its position as the world's premier financial capital in the intervening years!

Frankly though, it doesn't matter whether this country's GDP is a few micro-percentage points higher or lower after leaving the EU. It doesn't even matter if the SNP pushes through another independence referendum and win through tartan hysteria. It doesn't matter if we get kicked off the Security Council and become a second tier power like Spain because this country would no longer be at the mercy of EU rules which are attempting to erase borders and tear up communities and cultural identities without mandate.

"Britain stronger in Europe"

HOW?

Britain was the fastest growing western economy in 2014, the UK will become the largest economy in Europe in a few short decades, Australia and Canada are not in political union with other nations, have smaller populations and economies yet they have not collapsed. Why would Britain, the world's 5th largest economy and home to 65m people be unable to thrive in the world when these comparatively lesser countries can?

People have for far too long been influenced by people saying "Britain is a small island" The Japanese home island Honshu is only a fraction larger than Great Britain, is home to the vast majority of the Japanese population and is the driving force of the world's 3rd largest economy. Geographical size is meaningless in these situations.

The EU is collapsing under corruption, economic stagnation and an economic migrant crisis directly caused by Germany's Angela Merkel who invited these people to Europe.

Britain should jump ship while we still can.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Roofas)
The argument that the economy would suffer is nonsense anyway.
Only a fool would say that. I agree that there arguments for and against leaving the EU from an economic point of view but the simple truth is no one actually knows if they are nonsense or not.

I believe that following a vote to leave the EU, it is likely is that some businesses will leave the UK and move elsewhere just as RBS and HBOS had contingency plans to move from Edinburgh to London after an independence vote for Scotland.

I also believe it is quite likely that Scotland would seek a further vote on independence and win which really would force the nuclear issue. But these are only likely things to happen. I will fully concede that I could well be wrong. But I would certainly not call any arguments that contradict my opinion nonsense.
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paul514
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Do you know how they came to the 3 million jobs are at risk line?

It is the number of employees of all the companies who have traded anything with someone with an eye country.

Amazing how all these jobs are at risk if we leave when a company of 1000 employees sold one paper clip to someone in Poland.


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ByEeek
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(Original post by paul514)
Do you know how they came to the 3 million jobs are at risk line?

It is the number of employees of all the companies who have traded anything with someone with an eye country.

Amazing how all these jobs are at risk if we leave when a company of 1000 employees sold one paper clip to someone in Poland.


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Fair enough. But if you are running a business, you can only take decisions on things you know about. It is not good business practice to speculate about what might happen. So if we take your fictional company whose business is selling 1 paper clip to Poland, they will be asking "If the UK leaves the UK, how much is it going to cost us?" The only fully truthful answer is "I have no idea!" But they can work out how much it would cost to lay off or relocate their employees to Poland, seek new premises, new employees and re-register their company in Poland. And that is surprisingly cheap these days for many companies. So if that cost is reasonable when set against the "I have no idea" cost of massive political change, it is a no brainer.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Stewie2011)
Seems to me they are more concerned with business/trade concerns and not the main concern of the majority of the population which is immigration. Cameron seems only concerned with business or power politics renegotiations and ignores renegoitions on the immigration/movement of people in Europe issue altogether. Looks to me choice of Stuart Rose to head up Yes camp sign is a poor choice emphasing Tories concern of just those of business and not the population at large.
You have to look at this from Cameron's point of view to answer this..

1) Is it in my political interest to pick a fight on free movement which I will almost certainly lose.

2) By supporting In I annoy a few skeptics but at worst preserve the status-quo. By supporting Out a few people will worship me but if we leave then I'll be remembered as the PM having o sailed us into the unknown and I risk being remembered as divisive if the result is close. Which do I prefer?

You see, there's really no way Cameron (a man who doesn't engage in big principled fights and instead compromises) was ever going to do anything else.
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