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Mature students going to King's or Barts?
Any other mature students around who have offers from either GKT or Barts? Trying to decide where I want to go! I'll be 32 when the course starts so probably older then most 
Reply 2
Yes I'll will be going to the open days as I think they're worth doing to help make final decision. I think I'm leaning towards GKT, but I'm struggling a bit tbh!
As far as pros and cons go I kind of thought of the following for the GEP courses off the top of my head:
GKT
For:
Reputation seems to be slightly better?
Bigger = might get more interesting cases to see
More staff involved in research - taught by those at cutting edge of current thinking
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Easier to get to for me
Against:
GEP entrants have little additional support and much of first year will be self-directed learning to catch up on first year work.
Communication perhaps not as good due to size of the place
Barts
For:
Course structure using PBL for the catch-up work for first year in conjunction with the medics and nurses seems to be better than GKT.
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Smaller numbers so you probably get to know other students better
Some community based teaching at the outreach centres
Against:
% of staff involved in research is lower than GKT
Whitechapel sucks
Reputation maybe not quite as good?
Internal quality assessment for Barts is available on their website at http://www.smd.qmul.ac.uk/qamatters/reports/reports.htm if you're interested. It's a good read with some good stuff on admissions, etc.
As far as pros and cons go I kind of thought of the following for the GEP courses off the top of my head:
GKT
For:
Reputation seems to be slightly better?
Bigger = might get more interesting cases to see
More staff involved in research - taught by those at cutting edge of current thinking
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Easier to get to for me
Against:
GEP entrants have little additional support and much of first year will be self-directed learning to catch up on first year work.
Communication perhaps not as good due to size of the place
Barts
For:
Course structure using PBL for the catch-up work for first year in conjunction with the medics and nurses seems to be better than GKT.
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Smaller numbers so you probably get to know other students better
Some community based teaching at the outreach centres
Against:
% of staff involved in research is lower than GKT
Whitechapel sucks
Reputation maybe not quite as good?
Internal quality assessment for Barts is available on their website at http://www.smd.qmul.ac.uk/qamatters/reports/reports.htm if you're interested. It's a good read with some good stuff on admissions, etc.
graduatedentist!
GKT
For:
Reputation seems to be slightly better?
Bigger = might get more interesting cases to see
More staff involved in research - taught by those at cutting edge of current thinking
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Easier to get to for me
Against:
GEP entrants have little additional support and much of first year will be self-directed learning to catch up on first year work.
Communication perhaps not as good due to size of the place
Barts
For:
Course structure using PBL for the catch-up work for first year in conjunction with the medics and nurses seems to be better than GKT.
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Smaller numbers so you probably get to know other students better
Some community based teaching at the outreach centres
Against:
% of staff involved in research is lower than GKT
Whitechapel sucks
Reputation maybe not quite as good?
.
GKT
For:
Reputation seems to be slightly better?
Bigger = might get more interesting cases to see
More staff involved in research - taught by those at cutting edge of current thinking
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Easier to get to for me
Against:
GEP entrants have little additional support and much of first year will be self-directed learning to catch up on first year work.
Communication perhaps not as good due to size of the place
Barts
For:
Course structure using PBL for the catch-up work for first year in conjunction with the medics and nurses seems to be better than GKT.
Is there really that much difference at the end of the day?!
Smaller numbers so you probably get to know other students better
Some community based teaching at the outreach centres
Against:
% of staff involved in research is lower than GKT
Whitechapel sucks
Reputation maybe not quite as good?
.
ok, so I hear you, on all those points. Here are a few things I've picked up along the way...
1) Kings has had the marginally better rep for a longer period, but Barts has caught up and surpassed Kings (ie: according to an NHS survey ,Oct 2006, Barts scored the highest out of all the teaching hospitals in terms of quality of service)
2) Kings is a pretty campus and in a decent area, however Barts & The London NHS trust has been given the largest cash injection for redevelopement and refurbishment....their labs are all new and they have a couple of new art-deco buildngs. With the Olympics and redevelopement of a few underground stations, East London will become more aesthetic and Whitechapel will be quite different in time.
3) There will be a time when Barts' "reputation" will catch up and surpass that of Kings.
4) The truth is, they are both excellent Institutions for Dentistry, whichever you pick will be fantastic.
PS - Why does whitechapel suck? because the area and the people are a little run down? I think it's a shame that people discriminate against this....I think it will make for a VERY diverse and challenging clinical experience. I've travelled the world and seen worse, so I'm not worried at all. These people need care also. I'm certainly not in this to be a snob (I'm not calling you one by the way...I'm kind of just tooting my sanctimonious horn). Besides, just around the corner from Whitechapel is Liverpool street, brick lane, old street and shoreditch which are only the coolest areas to socialise, meet international people and have a blast. There isn't much around London Bridge in the way of cool, since its mostly businesses and office spaces and window shopping. That's kinda boring.
Sorry If I've bored you. (Guess which Uni I'm going to?)
Reply 4
hey Yasmina, those all sound like good reasons for Barts and I don't think I can disagree with much you've said. King's has all new labs as well now, so that improves things a bit. You're certainly right that the Whitechapel area provides a diverse patient base to treat, but Guy's is essentially in the same type of area given how close it is. Both of them would be better from that perspective than many other schools. Barts also scored highly in the last GDC visitation report for the communication skills of their graduates.
As I said in my posting, I feel the benefits of both are finely balanced and would be happy going to either. In the end I may go for convenience of walking to Guy's from the station rather than having the extra journey to Whitechapel.
As I said in my posting, I feel the benefits of both are finely balanced and would be happy going to either. In the end I may go for convenience of walking to Guy's from the station rather than having the extra journey to Whitechapel.
Reply 5
Hi, could you please tell me what the closest station is to guy's, thanks!
Reply 6
London Bridge station is right next door.
Good morning GraduateDentist,
You make perfect sense, when you know you can't go wrong with either institution, it comes down to the smaller details. Barts is closer to me and so I'm sure that will make life considerably easier. London can be a transport nightmare if you have distances to cover.
Where are you coming from? Are you commuting to London everyday?
You make perfect sense, when you know you can't go wrong with either institution, it comes down to the smaller details. Barts is closer to me and so I'm sure that will make life considerably easier. London can be a transport nightmare if you have distances to cover.
Where are you coming from? Are you commuting to London everyday?
Reply 8
I'll be commuting every day about 40 minutes into London Bridge, so adding on the 20-30 minutes each way to Barts reduces the appeal slightly. I'm also going to do a bit more research among all the dentists I know to see if they have any preferences when it comes to employing graduates of either school. I don't think that there's going to be much difference though!
Let me know what they tell you!
Hey.... actually if I were you, I'd probably go for Kings. Why trek further than you need to?
You know what concerns I have, I worry that by the time I graduate I'll be 35/36 and may be discriminated against whilst applying for a job. I fear that employers will prefer younger graduates who have a longer work-life expectancy, know what I mean?
Do you have any thoughts on this that could put my mind at ease?
Hey.... actually if I were you, I'd probably go for Kings. Why trek further than you need to?
You know what concerns I have, I worry that by the time I graduate I'll be 35/36 and may be discriminated against whilst applying for a job. I fear that employers will prefer younger graduates who have a longer work-life expectancy, know what I mean?
Do you have any thoughts on this that could put my mind at ease?
Reply 10
Yeah I have thought about the same thing, but the one thing in our favour is that we have more life experience... If you graduate well before 40 there's still 20-25 years of working life left and how many surgeries will expect you to stay that long with them in first job post-qualification anyway.
Slightly older dentists may be able to give patients the impression of more experience and gravitas from the start even if they're not actually any more competent at their jobs. I know for sure that my people skills have improved massively since I started working after uni first time round, so this is also a plus.
Think positively!!
Slightly older dentists may be able to give patients the impression of more experience and gravitas from the start even if they're not actually any more competent at their jobs. I know for sure that my people skills have improved massively since I started working after uni first time round, so this is also a plus.
Think positively!!
Yes yes yes!
We've worked hard to get thus far, it only reconfirms my belief that there are no obstacles that cannot be overcome. I know this.To do most doctorates in Psychology, mature applicants are preferred for some of the very reasons you mentioned. A persons life experience and countenance cannot be underestimated. I know this too. I'm just indulging my neurotic side today.
X
We've worked hard to get thus far, it only reconfirms my belief that there are no obstacles that cannot be overcome. I know this.To do most doctorates in Psychology, mature applicants are preferred for some of the very reasons you mentioned. A persons life experience and countenance cannot be underestimated. I know this too. I'm just indulging my neurotic side today.
X
Reply 12
Hey, i m lucky enough to have the same choice as u, in that i've been offered by both places.
I think we have to be honest and say that with the current situation. Kings is definitely better than Barts. Although Barts is still a top dental school. I feel this is because:
1) Kings overall is a higher ranked institution both in terms of the university alone and for dentistry as a subject.
2) Kings research recieved 5*/5* (Barts 5/5*). This is because Kings due to its dental school size (double of Barts) generates a much larger income than Barts to reinvest into areas such as research.
3) Kings is more advanced in terms of its dental technology and teaching equipment. (e.g. tablet pcs to take patient notes with)
The two areas are also very different in terms of affluence. Lets be honest, Kings (Guys) has undergone alot of redevelopment to be in its current state. I remember visiting Guys in 1992 after the thatcher era (when it was just starting redevelopment and thinking how old it looked). East london is only beginning its regeneration scheme now esp since we won the Olympics. Barts has also recieved a huge investment budget although i dont know how much of that will go into dentistry. I agree the area looks pretty run down but East London by tradition is not an affluent area, its a working mans area with its markets and being near to docklands but it has much more culture and history. I get more of a feeling for community in East london than at Guy's.
The positives about Barts are that:
*) Barts attained the same teaching rating 24/24 as Kings 24/24. If u look at other dental schools lol not to mention names they got 18/24 or 19/24...i mean come on thats an embarassment!
1) Its dental school is small, 75ish intake as opposed to 150 ish of Kings. So i reckon the education will be much more personalised. This can only be a positive thing, tutors have more time to focus on you as an individual.
2) I love the style of Barts GEP course. Theres alot of tuition to help GEP students thats incoporated with the training of GEP medics and nurses. Whereas in Kings you only get 1 month pre-clinical tuition thats supposed to fit in everything of the 1st year BDS.
50% of the marks are also attained throughout the course (50% from exams) as opposed to the more traditional kings.
3) Its going to be cheaper at Barts. As grads money is a more important factor for us to consider.
Kings and Barts are already top dental schools. I don't think Barts will catch up to Kings in terms of investment or institution pristiege (within our time there over the next 4 years) as its dental school is only half the size of Kings (thus income is halved). Kings is renowned in Europe as its largest dental school. But we can expect regeneration in East london to modernise it a bit over the next few years.
So as for me, i am currently 75% for Barts and 25% for Kings. It would be 50:50 but Barts offered me GEP
Tell me what u guys think about my view?
PS: I talked to some dentists. It dosent matter where u graduate from. Theres only two dental schools in london but Kings have a much bigger alumni than Barts. To be honest if you want to work as an associate in a Private GDP in london, the competition is so great now its practically impossible unless u have contacts or you're a very experienced specialist with higher dental qualifications. (or ur willing to be exploited for low salary private contracts as i've heard with some very highly qualified Polish/ Indian doctors than have emigrated here)
If you want to work for an NHS GDP/ Hospital NHS Dental Service in london then theres less of a problem and its less competitive. Alternatively u can go into dental univeristy research for which u get paid to research a speciality and teach occasionally part-time which also pays well and is more diverse.
Are people more likely to give jobs to their alumni? yes perhaps but i think thats only a minor factor thats taken into consideration. Face it, at least dentists can find decent jobs in london unlike ahem.....junior doctors.
I think we have to be honest and say that with the current situation. Kings is definitely better than Barts. Although Barts is still a top dental school. I feel this is because:
1) Kings overall is a higher ranked institution both in terms of the university alone and for dentistry as a subject.
2) Kings research recieved 5*/5* (Barts 5/5*). This is because Kings due to its dental school size (double of Barts) generates a much larger income than Barts to reinvest into areas such as research.
3) Kings is more advanced in terms of its dental technology and teaching equipment. (e.g. tablet pcs to take patient notes with)
The two areas are also very different in terms of affluence. Lets be honest, Kings (Guys) has undergone alot of redevelopment to be in its current state. I remember visiting Guys in 1992 after the thatcher era (when it was just starting redevelopment and thinking how old it looked). East london is only beginning its regeneration scheme now esp since we won the Olympics. Barts has also recieved a huge investment budget although i dont know how much of that will go into dentistry. I agree the area looks pretty run down but East London by tradition is not an affluent area, its a working mans area with its markets and being near to docklands but it has much more culture and history. I get more of a feeling for community in East london than at Guy's.
The positives about Barts are that:
*) Barts attained the same teaching rating 24/24 as Kings 24/24. If u look at other dental schools lol not to mention names they got 18/24 or 19/24...i mean come on thats an embarassment!
1) Its dental school is small, 75ish intake as opposed to 150 ish of Kings. So i reckon the education will be much more personalised. This can only be a positive thing, tutors have more time to focus on you as an individual.
2) I love the style of Barts GEP course. Theres alot of tuition to help GEP students thats incoporated with the training of GEP medics and nurses. Whereas in Kings you only get 1 month pre-clinical tuition thats supposed to fit in everything of the 1st year BDS.
50% of the marks are also attained throughout the course (50% from exams) as opposed to the more traditional kings.
3) Its going to be cheaper at Barts. As grads money is a more important factor for us to consider.
Kings and Barts are already top dental schools. I don't think Barts will catch up to Kings in terms of investment or institution pristiege (within our time there over the next 4 years) as its dental school is only half the size of Kings (thus income is halved). Kings is renowned in Europe as its largest dental school. But we can expect regeneration in East london to modernise it a bit over the next few years.
So as for me, i am currently 75% for Barts and 25% for Kings. It would be 50:50 but Barts offered me GEP
Tell me what u guys think about my view?
PS: I talked to some dentists. It dosent matter where u graduate from. Theres only two dental schools in london but Kings have a much bigger alumni than Barts. To be honest if you want to work as an associate in a Private GDP in london, the competition is so great now its practically impossible unless u have contacts or you're a very experienced specialist with higher dental qualifications. (or ur willing to be exploited for low salary private contracts as i've heard with some very highly qualified Polish/ Indian doctors than have emigrated here)
If you want to work for an NHS GDP/ Hospital NHS Dental Service in london then theres less of a problem and its less competitive. Alternatively u can go into dental univeristy research for which u get paid to research a speciality and teach occasionally part-time which also pays well and is more diverse.
Are people more likely to give jobs to their alumni? yes perhaps but i think thats only a minor factor thats taken into consideration. Face it, at least dentists can find decent jobs in london unlike ahem.....junior doctors.
Reply 13
Also i forgot to mention. I asked my dentist about age.
IF u do the 5 yr course when u leave school at 18years old and do an intercal BSC and 1 year vocational training (as it still is with dentistry) that equals 7 years. So you will be 25 years old when ur a qualified dentisty with your own number to practice.
IF your in your 30s (4year training + 1 yr vocational training) you will be 35+ when you recieve your own number.
Many people also take 3 years to do a Masters in a dental speciality. ooo
I asked my dentist this and he said that if he had similar candidates with similar qualifications and skills. Then he would go for the younger candidate esp. if he wanted to train someone he liked that he thought could potentially be a long term partner.
if he hiring a temporary staff, he would be less bothered.
PS: wat i m worried about is that alot of people on GEP are in their 30s or late 20s. I m going to be 21 when i start. Thats like a generation apart. I m wondering if i would fit in esp. at Barts where they teach all GEP students together.
IF u do the 5 yr course when u leave school at 18years old and do an intercal BSC and 1 year vocational training (as it still is with dentistry) that equals 7 years. So you will be 25 years old when ur a qualified dentisty with your own number to practice.
IF your in your 30s (4year training + 1 yr vocational training) you will be 35+ when you recieve your own number.
Many people also take 3 years to do a Masters in a dental speciality. ooo
I asked my dentist this and he said that if he had similar candidates with similar qualifications and skills. Then he would go for the younger candidate esp. if he wanted to train someone he liked that he thought could potentially be a long term partner.
if he hiring a temporary staff, he would be less bothered.
PS: wat i m worried about is that alot of people on GEP are in their 30s or late 20s. I m going to be 21 when i start. Thats like a generation apart. I m wondering if i would fit in esp. at Barts where they teach all GEP students together.
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