zionezee
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Are grammar schools better than comprehensive schools, on regards of the results they achieve?
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MyGCSESubjects
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Well, some comprehensive schools claim that they hold a high pass success rate for GCSEs and A-Levels, but really they're having us on; the majority of students complete BTEC courses, which don't equate to the Higher Tier examinations taken by those who attend a grammar school. However, I am not criticising every individual in a comprehensive school as some do complete a full GCSE. Taking into account the above, the highest grade in a BTEC (there's a different grading system) is NOT the same as an A* in a similar course at GCSE.

Meanwhile, in grammar schools, the work appears to be a lot more rigorous right from the off and this initial boost allows students to undertake GCSEs. Some comprehensive schools do offer work of a similar rigour as a grammar school but what they lack is the opportunities for independent study because many couldn't care less about whether they end up with a U in Mathematics, for example. Mind you, that is why the not so clever ones are at a comprehensive school in the first place.

I hope reading this provides a better understanding and helps you distinguish between grammar and comprehensive schools.
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timothybojangles
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(Original post by MyGCSESubjects)

I hope reading this provides a better understanding and helps you distinguish between grammar and comprehensive schools.
Not at all I'm afraid! You didn't explain what a Grammar or Comp is?

Grammar Schools will produce higher results purely because they are selective, they take the top percentile of 11 plus entrants. Everyone else goes to Secondary Modern or Comp.

The theory of Grammar Schools - to provide state funded secondary education to naturally gifted and talented children - is solid, but in practice it is suggested that the well off who could afford to privately tutor their children would pass the 11 plus with higher grades than the less well off who wouldn't be able to afford the extra tutoring and would be classed out. Leading to an unfair system not indicative of pupils actual abilities. Preparation for the 11 plus wasn't taught in primary schools either.
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AmeliaBaldwin
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I find that unfortunately I'm one of the very few people from low income families who manage to get into the grammar school I attend. You find that quite often parents will get their children private tutoring or send them to private school for a few years to give them the boost they need to get in.
I'm thankful that my parents were so good to me, there was a programme running in my area where children of a higher ability level could take courses in various things, as well as courses where children could go for lessons at a local grammar school for one day a week.
In the first year a handful of children will drop out, and gradually you find that the children who were tutored (or are still being tutored) or came from a private school slowly level out in progress with children who weren't so fortunate. I think that if you're willing to work hard and take extra lessons to boost your ability then your dedication should be admired, but I know a lot of people who get pushed far too hard.

I think the work ethic and mentality of a grammar school is very much academically inclined, and you find that people with a certain mindset tend to succeed in them. Personally I think that there should be more support in primary schools for children who have a certain degree of potential, and perhaps there should be a different way of assessing it. For example I have a cousin, aged eight, who doesn't live in the best home environment. He definitely lives in some degree of poverty, and unfortunately factors like financial stability can affect a child's behaviour and inclination to produce good work. He'll remember anything he's interested in e.g. capital cities, world flags, and if I get him to match cads with me (face down) he will remember which ones are which and win almost every time. From what I gather he has an excellent memory and fairly good logical skills. However, without access to tutoring and being somewhat pushed to the side by the system set in place at the moment, I fear that his ability won't be recognised.

Grammar schools definitely get better results, because the students have been cherry picked, but there's also normally that stable home environment that gives them grades an extra push up.
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MyGCSESubjects
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(Original post by AmeliaBaldwin)
I find that unfortunately I'm one of the very few people from low income families who manage to get into the grammar school I attend. You find that quite often parents will get their children private tutoring or send them to private school for a few years to give them the boost they need to get in.
I'm thankful that my parents were so good to me, there was a programme running in my area where children of a higher ability level could take courses in various things, as well as courses where children could go for lessons at a local grammar school for one day a week.
In the first year a handful of children will drop out, and gradually you find that the children who were tutored (or are still being tutored) or came from a private school slowly level out in progress with children who weren't so fortunate. I think that if you're willing to work hard and take extra lessons to boost your ability then your dedication should be admired, but I know a lot of people who get pushed far too hard.

I think the work ethic and mentality of a grammar school is very much academically inclined, and you find that people with a certain mindset tend to succeed in them. Personally I think that there should be more support in primary schools for children who have a certain degree of potential, and perhaps there should be a different way of assessing it. For example I have a cousin, aged eight, who doesn't live in the best home environment. He definitely lives in some degree of poverty, and unfortunately factors like financial stability can affect a child's behaviour and inclination to produce good work. He'll remember anything he's interested in e.g. capital cities, world flags, and if I get him to match cads with me (face down) he will remember which ones are which and win almost every time. From what I gather he has an excellent memory and fairly good logical skills. However, without access to tutoring and being somewhat pushed to the side by the system set in place at the moment, I fear that his ability won't be recognised.

Grammar schools definitely get better results, because the students have been cherry picked, but there's also normally that stable home environment that gives them grades an extra push up.
We're not looking for a fairytale, just an explanation as to why a grammar or comprehensive school is better. I do agree with your statement at the end though, quite true.
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AmeliaBaldwin
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(Original post by MyGCSESubjects)
We're not looking for a fairytale, just an explanation as to why a grammar or comprehensive school is better. I do agree with your statement at the end though, quite true.
I wanted to justify my opinion, but I apologise for being an inconvenience with how long it was. I would hate to state an opinion without much validity or explanation behind my thoughts
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MyGCSESubjects
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(Original post by AmeliaBaldwin)
I wanted to justify my opinion, but I apologise for being an inconvenience with how long it was. I would hate to state an opinion without much validity or explanation behind my thoughts
I see, there's no need to apologise; I was just trying to maintain the thread (otherwise everyone will discuss their personal experiences!)

Anyway, I'm glad to be known of your place at grammar school because, as you'll already know, a better standard of education does enable you to attain more highly! Thus, working at the higher end of the spectrum differentiates you from those who attend a comprehensive school and, furthermore, sets up better career opportunities.

While I'm in an active discussion, I might as well reveal a bit about my self. Currently, I attend a grammar school, I am in Year 11, working for the highest possible grades and thinking about my future.
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Katty3
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(Original post by zionezee)
Are grammar schools better than comprehensive schools, on regards of the results they achieve?
No. Grammar schools are crap. They get great results, but they are very stressful and pressurised as subjects like art and music are considered lesser, so you have less time to unwind or use different parts of the brain. Grammar schools have changed considerably in the past 50 years. Now instead of copying notes off a blackboard, you have to copy notes off a PowerPoint. It is as boring and pointless as it sounds.

They also set stupid amounts of homework and are really strict. I got detentions for offences including, but not limited to: wearing the wrong colour socks (navy blue not black), having my tie the wrong length, and having holes in the elbows of my jumper.

Pretty much every kid who goes to one has to have tutoring because you can't pass the 11 plus without it. They don't promote social mobility as it's mainly the well off who get in.

I went to one for five years, before anyone says that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Comps tend to be a bit more relaxed about stuff. They tend to offer support instead of just punishment. I have been to a comprehensive as well.

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rxns_00
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(Original post by zionezee)
Are grammar schools better than comprehensive schools, on regards of the results they achieve?
I moved from a normal comp to grammar school with no problem for sixth form. I thought I'd naturally get better grades but actually a lot of the year failed and didn't even get back into year 13, and most got very average AS like CCCC. So not really, I don't see much of a difference in quality of teaching or anything at my new school
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MyGCSESubjects
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(Original post by Katty3)
No. Grammar schools are crap. They get great results, but they are very stressful and pressurised as subjects like art and music are considered lesser, so you have less time to unwind or use different parts of the brain. Grammar schools have changed considerably in the past 50 years. Now instead of copying notes off a blackboard, you have to copy notes off a PowerPoint. It is as boring and pointless as it sounds.

They also set stupid amounts of homework and are really strict. I got detentions for offences including, but not limited to: wearing the wrong colour socks (navy blue not black), having my tie the wrong length, and having holes in the elbows of my jumper.

Pretty much every kid who goes to one has to have tutoring because you can't pass the 11 plus without it. They don't promote social mobility as it's mainly the well off who get in.

I went to one for five years, before anyone says that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Comps tend to be a bit more relaxed about stuff. They tend to offer support instead of just punishment. I have been to a comprehensive as well.

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Whereabouts was the grammar school located?
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JP Schofield
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Are these the fee paying Grammar schools or state grammar schools
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mez_merising
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grammar schools imo are just private schools without the money, funding is pretty horrific

yes the students are 'picked' i guess you could say, but as some have said above, those who can't keep up with the pressure/intensity of work they expect you to deal with will quite quickly fall below eg. those who have been tutored vs just naturally gifted students

i dont necessarily think grammar schools are better than comps, grammar school tend to just have higher grade averages because the students put in the work (not saying that comp students dont) but there's a higher majority that want to get the highest possible in grammars than comps.

support wise, i think it depends on the school. you can have really horrible teachers and really nice teachers at either. depends on what you make of the situation.

also think that there are more opportunities available to grammars than comps, but there's no reason why individuals can't go and research about what they want to do and sign up.

btw i've been to all three, comp, grammar and private
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