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Socialists and Capitalists should not set the agenda! watch

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    Socialists want the State to run everything, Capitalists want big business and billionaires to run it. But there is an alternative:

    I would like to see a maximum realised income of 40 times median wage (ie: 100% tax above 40x median wage). Branson can own Virgin but not spend it.

    I would like to see a radical revision of Company Law. Depending on company size/unit size, I would like to see staff representatives on Boards with equal voting rights and staff equity in the company.

    Depending on the industry type, corporation tax should be heavily proportional to turnover as well as profit, so favouring smaller businesses in the UK.

    Measures are also needed to prevent the loss of national effort overseas. such as limits on foreign ownership of utilities and a strategic minimum UK ownership in all business sectors. Overseas investment in the UK should be limited to ensure that it does not cause a trade imbalance because of availability of foreign currency for imports (high pound) and excessive liabilities in interest, profits and dividends.

    Very small businesses (<5 employees, <10xmedian wage as turnover) should be exempt from much of economic and employment legislation, including the Equalities Act, VAT and corporation taxes. They are the seed from which industry grows. This also offers freedom to those who need it.

    This is not socialist: no state run industry, no nanny state. It is just Liberalism. It might accomplish redistribution of wealth and a vigorous economy. Much of this could not be done in the EU, which should make you think: the EU is corporatist and socialist.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Socialists want the State to run everything, Capitalists want big business and billionaires to run it. But there is an alternative:

    I would like to see a maximum realised income of 40 times median wage (ie: 100% tax above 40x median wage). Branson can own Virgin but not spend it.


    I would like to see a radical revision of Company Law. Depending on company size/unit size, I would like to see staff representatives on Boards with equal voting rights and staff equity in the company.

    Depending on the industry type, corporation tax should be heavily proportional to turnover as well as profit, so favouring smaller businesses in the UK.

    Measures are also needed to prevent the loss of national effort overseas. such as limits on foreign ownership of utilities and a strategic minimum UK ownership in all business sectors. Overseas investment in the UK should be limited to ensure that it does not cause a trade imbalance because of availability of foreign currency for imports (high pound) and excessive liabilities in interest, profits and dividends.

    Very small businesses (<5 employees, <10xmedian wage as turnover) should be exempt from much of economic and employment legislation, including the Equalities Act, VAT and corporation taxes. They are the seed from which industry grows. This also offers freedom to those who need it.

    This is not socialist: no state run industry, no nanny state. It is just Liberalism. It might accomplish redistribution of wealth and a vigorous economy. Much of this could not be done in the EU.
    Not true, you mistake the means of some socialists for the ends of all socialists.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Not true, you mistake the means of some socialists for the ends of all socialists.
    Civil Servants shouldn't run anything beyond a minimal Civil Service. Certainly not trade and industry.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Civil Servants shouldn't run anything beyond a minimal Civil Service. Certainly not trade and industry.
    Which is relevant to my post how?
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Socialists want the State to run everything,
    Most true Socialists don't want the State to run everything. A few Communists might do, but not Socialists.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Most true Socialists don't want the State to run everything. A few Communists might do, but not Socialists.
    No the Communists want to get rid of the state and have a fully democratic world wide commune. Socialism is communism without the revolution.
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    My dad's business as a turn over of 1.8 million last year. Out of that he made 60,000 profit after tax. So what would your tax for turnover be based on?
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Which is relevant to my post how?
    Those who run state owned enterprises are Civil Servants.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Those who run state owned enterprises are Civil Servants.
    Which isn't relevant.
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    I should set the agenda. Vote Jack 2020
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Most true Socialists don't want the State to run everything. A few Communists might do, but not Socialists.
    The state shouldn't run much at all. That was the lesson of 20thC economic history. We should learn from the past rather than insist upon reliving it!
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Which isn't relevant.
    OK........
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    Workers ownership is a form of socialism, so some of your measures would be socialist, and the rest more extreme Liberalism. Socialism is not the state owning everything, socialism is things being owned by it's workers,the community or society as a whole, and being run democratically. "State Socialism" is closer to what you describe, but it is no longer an ideology followed by many socialist.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    OK........
    Explain how that is relevant to "you mistake the means of some socialists for the mistakes of all socialists"
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    Political Ambassador
    cya communist
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Socialists want the State to run everything, Capitalists want big business and billionaires to run it. But there is an alternative:

    I would like to see a maximum realised income of 40 times median wage (ie: 100% tax above 40x median wage). Branson can own Virgin but not spend it.

    I would like to see a radical revision of Company Law. Depending on company size/unit size, I would like to see staff representatives on Boards with equal voting rights and staff equity in the company.

    Depending on the industry type, corporation tax should be heavily proportional to turnover as well as profit, so favouring smaller businesses in the UK.

    Measures are also needed to prevent the loss of national effort overseas. such as limits on foreign ownership of utilities and a strategic minimum UK ownership in all business sectors. Overseas investment in the UK should be limited to ensure that it does not cause a trade imbalance because of availability of foreign currency for imports (high pound) and excessive liabilities in interest, profits and dividends.

    Very small businesses (<5 employees, <10xmedian wage as turnover) should be exempt from much of economic and employment legislation, including the Equalities Act, VAT and corporation taxes. They are the seed from which industry grows. This also offers freedom to those who need it.

    This is not socialist: no state run industry, no nanny state. It is just Liberalism. It might accomplish redistribution of wealth and a vigorous economy. Much of this could not be done in the EU, which should make you think: the EU is corporatist and socialist.
    1. With a 100% tax, there would be no incentive for Branson to do anything more to do anything different with his company. This would be detrimental to not only him, but also Virgin's customers, as innovation and the strive to improve the company's quality of service will no longer be a priority to Branson and his company.

    2. With a 100% tax band companies and individuals would just be channel their profits to offshore countries, leaving the country with a net loss in revenue collected by the HMRC.

    3. Who owns the company? Certainly not the workers if the company is not a full partnership, or if they do not own any shares. Likewise, shouldn't workers also be liable for the company's losses in your examples?

    4. Your corporation tax scheme is unprincipled. It may even end up with some companies posting a post-tax loss, despite having made a pre-tax profit. Companies will also just leave the country and move to neighbouring Ireland where the corporation tax rate is far lower.

    5. Strategic UK ownership is illegal under EU law: see the Factortame cases. Your proposals will require the UK to leave the EU before such schemes can be implemented.

    6. Your small business exemption would be used by people to hide their earnings from the taxman by creating shell companies. This has happened before in the UK with the Entrepreneurs' relief (if I can recall correctly, or if not some other tax exemption for entrepreneurs which had a high limit), with the self-employed setting up companies to make use of the tax exemption, instead of letting their earnings be charged under the income tax.
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    (Original post by DeadOutside)
    Workers ownership is a form of socialism
    So when Thatcher privatised British Gas, and 99% of its workers bought shares in the company, that was socialism? I can hear old Maggy turning in her grave right now!
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    So when Thatcher privatised British Gas, and 99% of its workers bought shares in the company, that was socialism? I can hear old Maggy turning in her grave right now!
    British Gas is not a Workers Co-op, it was floated on the stock market when it was privatised and BG workers were not given an equal amount of equity. Social ownership can still exist under capitalism, it's just about what is the predominant form of ownership.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    The state shouldn't run much at all. That was the lesson of 20thC economic history. We should learn from the past rather than insist upon reliving it!
    What exactly was the lesson of 20th C economic history?
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    (Original post by william walker)
    No the Communists want to get rid of the state and have a fully democratic world wide commune. Socialism is communism without the revolution.
    No. The Communist totalitarians become the State once they've won their war against the Capitalists. You cannot have democracy and totalitarianism. And it is not true that Socialism is Communism without the revolution. Socialism has a different kind of revolution, in gradual stages rather than a violent bloody coup - which is what totalitarian Communism intends.
 
 
 
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