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    We:

    - Use to take orders from the US but we can't afford to do that any more
    - We have a cushy relationship with the Saudis (poor human rights record, notable funding for all sorts)
    - Now we put out the red carpet for China (poor human rights record) and now we NEED Chinese investment for a nuclear plant.


    Has the UK lost any back bone or any influence over the global economy? Or will we be told how to run things from now on!
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    We've not set the rules since WW2. That's the sad fact of the Soviets and USA winning WW2.

    We could still afford to tag along with the US if we wished. Potential defense spending is simply a function of tax revenues. Our population currently lacks resolve though.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    We've not set the rules since WW2. That's the sad fact of the Soviets and USA winning WW2.

    We could still afford to tag along with the US if we wished. Potential defense spending is simply a function of tax revenues. Our population currently lacks resolve though.
    As a sovereign nation we should at least be setting our own agenda. What is our agenda at the moment? to prop up dictators? to encourage poor human rights?

    No chance can we afford to tag along with the US. Welfare state or NHS would have to give, World financial markets wouldn't be kind.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    As a sovereign nation we should at least be setting our own agenda. What is our agenda at the moment? to prop up dictators? to encourage poor human rights?

    No chance can we afford to tag along with the US. Welfare state or NHS would have to give, World financial markets wouldn't be kind.
    Why? We don't have the leverage to make them do anything. Countries rarely change when asked, they (as when Britain gave up its empire) only really change when a superpower essentially orders them to.

    Why would financial markets be bothered about an increase in the defense budget if its paid for. While we should cut those departments, there's plenty of money to be found.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    As a sovereign nation we should at least be setting our own agenda. What is our agenda at the moment? to prop up dictators? to encourage poor human rights?

    No chance can we afford to tag along with the US. Welfare state or NHS would have to give, World financial markets wouldn't be kind.
    Let's be fair: which are the countries that are not terrible/dishonourable countries to partner with?
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    Let's be fair: which are the countries that are not terrible/dishonourable countries to partner with?
    Who says we should need to partner with any one? Does the US do it? nope.

    Not on the scale the UK is about to. Oh the French do

    Communism is coming to stay the night, red carpet etc.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Why? We don't have the leverage to make them do anything. Countries rarely change when asked, they (as when Britain gave up its empire) only really change when a superpower essentially orders them to.

    Why would financial markets be bothered about an increase in the defense budget if its paid for. While we should cut those departments, there's plenty of money to be found.
    It's over i am off to learn mandarin.

    Zàijiàn
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Who says we should need to partner with any one? Does the US do it? nope.

    Not on the scale the UK is about to. Oh the French do

    Communism is coming to stay the night, red carpet etc.
    I didn't mean partner as in become cronies together with. What I meant was to engage someone and work for mutual benefit through dialogue, common goals, and trade for example.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    It's over i am off to learn mandarin.

    Zàijiàn
    Ha. I'd not be in too much of a rush, their learning English and India already speaks it.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Ha. I'd not be in too much of a rush, their learning English and India already speaks it.
    They've learnt English to sell us strategic assets we need to survive. They are buying up our corporations, debt. Soon they will have influence over our energy, trains etc.
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    I didn't mean partner as in become cronies together with. What I meant was to engage someone and work for mutual benefit through dialogue, common goals, and trade for example.
    Yes well we are not doing that. We are actively encouraging their bad behaviour, putting out red carpets and making them appear legitimate in the eyes of the world. Everyone does business with each other but the UK is inviting them over for tea and jumping into bed with them.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Yes well we are not doing that. We are actively encouraging their bad behaviour, putting out red carpets and making them appear legitimate in the eyes of the world. Everyone does business with each other but the UK is inviting them over for tea and jumping into bed with them.
    To be frank the UK is in no position to not be the slut of Europe if it wants to succeed economically and attract superpowers like China.

    Oh, how unfortunate Margaret Thatcher was not an immortal prime minister. How she danced with Gorbachev was impeccable.
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    Yeah, the UK is losing it's influence and importance with each year that goes by. Britain's power always came from the Empire. So it should be no surprise that the UK is now a third-rate state and the former colonies are growing in power and influence.
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    Yeah, the UK is losing it's influence and importance with each year that goes by. Britain's power always came from the Empire. So it should be no surprise that the UK is now a third-rate state and the former colonies are growing in power and influence.
    No one was expecting the shift to be so fast.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    No one was expecting the shift to be so fast.
    Well that's partly due to the UK making terrible choices (being the US's lapdog. Joining the EU. The Suez crisis). As well as modern Brit's arrogance over the past, and their unwillingness to change their attitudes to reflect a changed (and changing) world.

    The bottom line is, the UK does not have a birthright to be at the top tier of nations. That has to be earned.
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    Applaud the OP for raising this, but never seems like anyone really process these facts and thinks about how changing anything may be worthwhile. People will still live in a smug, complacent, pompous conservative fantasy world about changing anything or what we need to address. Maybe this is inevitable from living in post-imperial Britain. But then, Orwell refers to this type of English conservative tendency going back years, so maybe it will never change. That fills me with dread, and have railed against my whole life, it's just allowing this country to be wrecked in every way. What do you think OP?
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Applaud the OP for raising this, but never seems like anyone really process these facts and thinks about how changing anything may be worthwhile. People will still live in a smug, complacent, pompous conservative fantasy world about changing anything or what we need to address. Maybe this is inevitable from living in post-imperial Britain. But then, Orwell refers to this type of English conservative tendency going back years, so maybe it will never change. That fills me with dread, and have railed against my whole life, it's just allowing this country to be wrecked in every way. What do you think OP?
    Delusional comes to mind. I'd like to see more people who see the current situation and the fast changing situation for what it is. Power is shifting fast. It's unlikely any new rising empires will show us any gratitude regardless of any red carpet we put out.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Delusional comes to mind. I'd like to see more people who see the current situation and the fast changing situation for what it is. Power is shifting fast. It's unlikely any new rising empires will show us any gratitude regardless of any red carpet we put out.
    I have been sick to death of the same English(especially home counties)prissy, ludicrous class obsessions, pomp and ceremony, assumptions of enlightenment and knowledge that are so incredibly blinkered and ignorant of the world. Narrow perspectives and an all pervasive sense of either self-satisfaction, whereby the curious or those not placated and depoliticised, and worked up about anything are patholigised, that or a miserly anti-intellectualism in other classes, dehumanised and inverted snobs about taking an interest in anything of the mind and anything political. All of course accompanied by the same rigidly defined class roles and continual judgement based on them. And the incurious notion that only two positions are allowed -1)complacent smugness and their is no problem, don't rock the boat, or otherwise2) you are 'bitter', the worst accusation. (Because the only thing to pursue is a place up the class ladder an the only thing worth aspiring to, incurious individualism and acceptance of a futile class struggle.) Nothing in between those two which involves nuance, or being more than a one-dimensional person that thinks about the world and has objectively based problems in it. Know this is a rant mate(SORRY), but I have to let it out at times. It's so incredibly frustrating for anyone who has curiosity and thinks and has an interest in the world and how they might like to be. The viewpoint seems so tragically narrow, self-important, arrogant and oddly, stubbornly conservative that at times I find it impossible to accept. The same need to frame conversation in term of narrow one-upmanship, preserve people's place, stifle egalitarianism(sense, lack of pomposity-we can't have that) and curiosity, and succumb to the same conservative mores. When just the smallest change in this attitude could make you feel human, or accept change or exploration might be worthwhile or make you feel better(even just if on a personal level without yet making changes), or see different solutions when living in incurious denial of reality so clearly does not make one happy... it's no exaggeration to say I have often felt dehumanized by these need to censor all these instincts in me. It is something quite uniquely English. I understand what the Scots mean about arrogance and ignorance, I lived there too. It is a kind of psychological, intellectual equivalent of yokelism and inbredness. But at least real yokels don't really think they are the ****, unquestioningly.

    I did have double espresso before this post.
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    Who gives a ****.

    You're delusional if you think it effects you in any way what so ever.
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    And Jeremy Corbyn is your answer? Hhahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaaha hahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahaha hahahahaha
 
 
 
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