Thoughts on Irenaeus. (Philosophy of Religion) Watch

ambergraver
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I've asked a similar question before - but has anyone got thoughts on St. Ireneaus' theodicy? (Developed by Hick)

I feel, it's good in some ways i.e. it's a more positive theodicy compared to Augutsine - however totally contradicts the bible and christian traditions (in terms of his explanation of heaven)

I also think it's good as it has support from other philosophers and theories i.e. Peter Vardy (King and the peasant girl analogy) as well as the counter-factual theory.

Also it could be argued that the fact he blames evil on Freewill and that God had to leave humans imperfect in order to develop - could be overly positive i.e. those experiencing chronic mental illness may not consider suffering to be a gift of God to help - compared to someone who had just had a quick accident (for example)

Another idea - is that the idea of God causing evil/suffering fundamentally goes against christian tradition as they believe evil cannot be caused or be within an all loving God.

If anyone has any input or arguments please feel free to comment !!! Thank you.
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RMNDK
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(Original post by ambergraver)
I've asked a similar question before - but has anyone got thoughts on St. Ireneaus' theodicy? (Developed by Hick)

I feel, it's good in some ways i.e. it's a more positive theodicy compared to Augutsine - however totally contradicts the bible and christian traditions (in terms of his explanation of heaven)

I also think it's good as it has support from other philosophers and theories i.e. Peter Vardy (King and the peasant girl analogy) as well as the counter-factual theory.

Also it could be argued that the fact he blames evil on Freewill and that God had to leave humans imperfect in order to develop - could be overly positive i.e. those experiencing chronic mental illness may not consider suffering to be a gift of God to help - compared to someone who had just had a quick accident (for example)

Another idea - is that the idea of God causing evil/suffering fundamentally goes against christian tradition as they believe evil cannot be caused or be within an all loving God.

If anyone has any input or arguments please feel free to comment !!! Thank you.
I like this theodicy as it incoorporates freewill into the argument, something Augustine failed to appreciate which, at least for me, is the core reason why human evil exists.

While Vardy's analogy is valid, it's not necessary when considering that Irenaeus opts for a universal salvation methodology. When you use a universal salvation, it just becomes logically flawed.

As a result, this diminishes the idea of freewill. There's so much emphasis on attributing evil to freewill but you have to raise the question of whether suffering leads to moral growth anyway. People can live and deal with their suffering and see no positives out of it. Some people also argue that suffering is not the only path to moral growth. God, being omniscient, should have foreseen humanity's downfall.

The theodicy has some pros, but you can't use it. I have no ideas on Christianity and how it fits into this.
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ambergraver
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(Original post by RMNDK)
I like this theodicy as it incoorporates freewill into the argument, something Augustine failed to appreciate which, at least for me, is the core reason why human evil exists.

While Vardy's analogy is valid, it's not necessary when considering that Irenaeus opts for a universal salvation methodology. When you use a universal salvation, it just becomes logically flawed.

As a result, this diminishes the idea of freewill. There's so much emphasis on attributing evil to freewill but you have to raise the question of whether suffering leads to moral growth anyway. People can live and deal with their suffering and see no positives out of it. Some people also argue that suffering is not the only path to moral growth. God, being omniscient, should have foreseen humanity's downfall.

The theodicy has some pros, but you can't use it. I have no ideas on Christianity and how it fits into this.
Ah yes, nice points - Corner (can't remember first name) raised the point about learning saying firstly that suffering was educational - but then raises the issue that we still do evil and that there has been so many killed after (for example) the holocaust even when death camps were removed: that surely we have not learnt?

Which i quite like - and agree with,
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RMNDK
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(Original post by ambergraver)
Ah yes, nice points - Corner (can't remember first name) raised the point about learning saying firstly that suffering was educational - but then raises the issue that we still do evil and that there has been so many killed after (for example) the holocaust even when death camps were removed: that surely we have not learnt?

Which i quite like - and agree with,
I actually do agree that suffering is supposed to be educational since it comes from freewill.

That isn't really an issue. Evil needs to be an ongoing process until the end of humanity because it's needs to be present in order to teach future generations. It's not that we haven't learnt. It's that they haven't learnt.
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TitanCream
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I think it's a strong argument


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