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before you get back on topic, im just going to offer my view, and i dont care if spencer is going to post to argue with me, cos its just my view, and i probably wont return for ages anyway
ok, i studied in vietnam until the end of year 8. and i remember for EVERY end of year exam, we were basically TOLD of the 5/6 questions that would come up in the exam. then the whole class would go home, write up pages of answers, learn them by heart, then go into the exam and write down what they remember. the only times when we aren't told of the questions are maths exams and the extra exams at the end of junior, middle and high schools. those we have to study. now i dont see how this is considered tough or whatever, since we're told the questions beforehand. so really, we only ever study a few times in our life when we're about to make that transition between school levels (cant speak for uni students as i dont know), and those who bother to study for maths.
i can also confirm that in the majority of asian schools kids learn things out of text books and never get to do a chemistry/physics experiment. i dont know about year 10, 11 and 12 cos i never experienced them. but the lack of recognition of asian qualifications is party due to this - the kids have no pratical experience. you cant let someone with no experience into your lovely expensive uni chem lab.
the reason that a level is more recognised than the french bac or other qualifications in other EU countries (excuse my not knowing their names) is simply because the UK is more highly regarded internationally in terms of economy, security etc. just as the AP might be more recognised internationally than the *inserts name here* brazillian qualification for example, even though those kids in brazil may study 10 times harder. so a country's qualification is recognised in the east, mainly because of that country's status and not necessarily the qualification itself. my best friend is currently studying in south africa. she is doing 6 subjects, the compulsory ones include maths, afrikaan and 3 sciences, leaving her last choice being english. so her course structure is very similar to the IB, minus TOK, CAS and EE. i can tell you now that she studies about 5 times harder than me, her grades are always consistently 85%+ in every subject. but will unis worldwide like my IB/someone's AP/your a level more or like her qualification more? i also have another friend here at my school, who stuck it out for a whole year doing the IB, then couldnt stand the work load and the difficulty of some subject and finally switched to a levels to be dropped back one year. i wont make any further comment on that, as im sure it speaks for itself. Our head-girl last year, who got 12 A*'s at GCSE or something ridiculous like that, did the IB. now guess how many points she got? 34. you tell me if the IB is like GCSE.
to wrap it off, i'll just say that i love the IB and i dont care what others say about it. it is only the people who have been through it that can truly say what it is like. you have no right to judge our IB or someone's french bac because you have not experienced it. i chose the IB because i decided it would educate me in all ways possible, especially the benefit of TOK, which many other qualifications lack. all in all, the IB gives its candidate more options for what they want to do later.
however, there is one unfair advantage that a level students have, which all IB students agree on. it is that a level students are allowed modular exams, and are also allowed to retake those modules without the unis knowing. i know the system has been changed for this year a level or something, so that unis can see when they have retaken a module. but obviously, that advantage has remained until now.
that's all folks.
ok, i studied in vietnam until the end of year 8. and i remember for EVERY end of year exam, we were basically TOLD of the 5/6 questions that would come up in the exam. then the whole class would go home, write up pages of answers, learn them by heart, then go into the exam and write down what they remember. the only times when we aren't told of the questions are maths exams and the extra exams at the end of junior, middle and high schools. those we have to study. now i dont see how this is considered tough or whatever, since we're told the questions beforehand. so really, we only ever study a few times in our life when we're about to make that transition between school levels (cant speak for uni students as i dont know), and those who bother to study for maths.
i can also confirm that in the majority of asian schools kids learn things out of text books and never get to do a chemistry/physics experiment. i dont know about year 10, 11 and 12 cos i never experienced them. but the lack of recognition of asian qualifications is party due to this - the kids have no pratical experience. you cant let someone with no experience into your lovely expensive uni chem lab.
the reason that a level is more recognised than the french bac or other qualifications in other EU countries (excuse my not knowing their names) is simply because the UK is more highly regarded internationally in terms of economy, security etc. just as the AP might be more recognised internationally than the *inserts name here* brazillian qualification for example, even though those kids in brazil may study 10 times harder. so a country's qualification is recognised in the east, mainly because of that country's status and not necessarily the qualification itself. my best friend is currently studying in south africa. she is doing 6 subjects, the compulsory ones include maths, afrikaan and 3 sciences, leaving her last choice being english. so her course structure is very similar to the IB, minus TOK, CAS and EE. i can tell you now that she studies about 5 times harder than me, her grades are always consistently 85%+ in every subject. but will unis worldwide like my IB/someone's AP/your a level more or like her qualification more? i also have another friend here at my school, who stuck it out for a whole year doing the IB, then couldnt stand the work load and the difficulty of some subject and finally switched to a levels to be dropped back one year. i wont make any further comment on that, as im sure it speaks for itself. Our head-girl last year, who got 12 A*'s at GCSE or something ridiculous like that, did the IB. now guess how many points she got? 34. you tell me if the IB is like GCSE.
to wrap it off, i'll just say that i love the IB and i dont care what others say about it. it is only the people who have been through it that can truly say what it is like. you have no right to judge our IB or someone's french bac because you have not experienced it. i chose the IB because i decided it would educate me in all ways possible, especially the benefit of TOK, which many other qualifications lack. all in all, the IB gives its candidate more options for what they want to do later.
however, there is one unfair advantage that a level students have, which all IB students agree on. it is that a level students are allowed modular exams, and are also allowed to retake those modules without the unis knowing. i know the system has been changed for this year a level or something, so that unis can see when they have retaken a module. but obviously, that advantage has remained until now.
that's all folks.
Will you guys quit arguing please? Otherwise I'm going to have to give out warnings. Please get back on topic. 
I'm nice like that 
spencer11111
Personally don't do IB. Most applicants from the UK and overseas use A levels.
u are so ignorant. you sitting there with a book of statistics by any chance? oh and btw... since China has the largest population and i really doubt their national program consists of A-levels, you are wrong anyway, whether you have that statistics book or not. and how can u "use" the IB or A-levels.. u "do" them.
spencer11111
Stop flaunting your French Bac. As far as I know the toughest exams on Earth are all found at North-east Asia, places like Japan, Korea, China... Those kids over there cram like mad.
But so what? They don't have the recognition so does your French bac. A level is gold standard exam and all commonwealth countries accord it as such.
But so what? They don't have the recognition so does your French bac. A level is gold standard exam and all commonwealth countries accord it as such.
of course.. and thats exactly why next year the IB will be worth more on the UCAS system than A-levels in terms of tariff points. the Unis admit that 38 IB points is NOT the same as AAB in a-levels. oh and btw, i come from india and trust me... education system there is crap. you get told whats on the exam. oh and FYI, in korea they do multiple choice tests, even for math. no doubt they are smart, im just saying their exams are..pftttt.
fleur de lis, thanks for giving us the warning. Allow me to make just some responses and I would return to the topic of the trend. This is only fair to those who have spent their time participating and voicing their opninions on the TSR, and true to the aims of TSR --discussion and sharing of opinions.
Thank you.
Thank you.
aimee_22
ok, i studied in vietnam until the end of year 8. and i remember for EVERY end of year exam, we were basically TOLD of the 5/6 questions that would come up in the exam. then the whole class would go home, write up pages of answers, learn them by heart, then go into the exam and write down what they remember. the only times when we aren't told of the questions are maths exams and the extra exams at the end of junior, middle and high schools.
I used the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) study to illustrate the point that Asian exams are harder, specifically, North-East Asian countries, namely Japanese, Chinese and Korean!!! They top the tables for TIMSS, there is no doubt about it. Their exams are also the hardest, and it is very common, even fashionable, for kids from these kind of countries to go for Jukos, or cram schools, after their regular schools. Their days stretched very early morning (4am) to very late night (1am).
aimee_22
i can also confirm that in the majority of asian schools kids learn things out of text books and never get to do a chemistry/physics experiment. i dont know about year 10, 11 and 12 cos i never experienced them. but the lack of recognition of asian qualifications is party due to this
I don't know where you got that from. I am aware that Japanese kids get exposed to Bunsen Burners at the grade 4. It is part of their science curriculum. On a recent holiday in Japan, I stumbled upon a bookshop selling primary school textbooks, and one of them has a page where clearly an ionic lattice structure is shown and next to it a Doraemon with a dialogue box. Clearly, these kind of books, from the childish nature of Doraemon, is meant for kids. So when is the time when you learnt about ionic lattice structure for NaCl?
aimee_22
the reason that a level is more recognised than the french bac or other qualifications in other EU countries (excuse my not knowing their names) is simply because the UK is more highly regarded internationally in terms of economy, security etc. just as the AP might be more recognised internationally than the *inserts name here* brazillian qualification for example, even though those kids in brazil may study 10 times harder. so a country's qualification is recognised in the east, mainly because of that country's status and not necessarily the qualification itself. my best friend is currently studying in south africa. she is doing 6 subjects, the compulsory ones include maths, afrikaan and 3 sciences, leaving her last choice being english. so her course structure is very similar to the IB, minus TOK, CAS and EE. i can tell you now that she studies about 5 times harder than me, her grades are always consistently 85%+ in every subject. but will unis worldwide like my IB/someone's AP/your a level more or like her qualification more? i also have another friend here at my school, who stuck it out for a whole year doing the IB, then couldnt stand the work load and the difficulty of some subject and finally switched to a levels to be dropped back one year. i wont make any further comment on that, as im sure it speaks for itself. Our head-girl last year, who got 12 A*'s at GCSE or something ridiculous like that, did the IB. now guess how many points she got? 34. you tell me if the IB is like GCSE.
This is precisely the thing I want to point out. A levels or US SAT or APs may not be the hardest exams on earth, but they receive the most recognition. US due to its dominance in today's world, UK due to its past conquest and host of commonwealth countries. I further show that French bac or IBs are not hard when compares to North-east Asian exams. So the argument that French bac or IBs are supposedly harder so it has more recognition is false, because if that's the case, the Japanese Entrance Exam should have more recognition.
aimee_22
however, there is one unfair advantage that a level students have, which all IB students agree on. it is that a level students are allowed modular exams, and are also allowed to retake those modules without the unis knowing. i know the system has been changed for this year a level or something, so that unis can see when they have retaken a module. but obviously, that advantage has remained until now.
The modular exam format is only a recent change. As far as I know some A levels offered overseas (outside UK) are still one-offs. Those offered by Cambridge are some of them.
vickyglitz
u are so ignorant. you sitting there with a book of statistics by any chance? oh and btw... since China has the largest population and i really doubt their national program consists of A-levels, you are wrong anyway, whether you have that statistics book or not. and how can u "use" the IB or A-levels.. u "do" them.
vickyglitz
of course.. and thats exactly why next year the IB will be worth more on the UCAS system than A-levels in terms of tariff points. the Unis admit that 38 IB points is NOT the same as AAB in a-levels. oh and btw, i come from india and trust me... education system there is crap. you get told whats on the exam. oh and FYI, in korea they do multiple choice tests, even for math. no doubt they are smart, im just saying their exams are..pftttt.
Even India is not a north-east Asian country (Japan, China, Korea), the exam standard should not be that bad. Take a look at the mock paper. The physics and chemistry questions are high end A level questions. The maths questions are AEA standard. That much I can tell you.
Thank you everyone for your patience. I think we should just return to the crux of the trend now, and that is Imperial IB offers!!!
To steer the thread back to its rightful domain...
For medicine, Imperial College's standard offer for IB was 665 at higher level and 555 at standard level, for 2007 entry.
This is subject to change for 2008 entry to 38 points overall with 66 at higher level.
For medicine, Imperial College's standard offer for IB was 665 at higher level and 555 at standard level, for 2007 entry.
This is subject to change for 2008 entry to 38 points overall with 66 at higher level.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4666856.stm
Just thought this link was interesting.
Why did they decide to change the standard medicine offer so drastically? I mean, it makes more sense this way (getting 32 points is, in most cases, a piece of cake) but it's a pretty big and rather sudden jump. Those applying this year were lucky I guess
Ha, I find it ironic how the UCAS tariff system (which will be implemented in 2008) claims that 36 points, the standard Imperial offer for zoology, is the equivalent of a whopping 4 A's and a B at A levels... whereas the standard A levels offer is ONE A, and two B's. In addition, practically all the A levels applicants for biology at Imperial I've spoken to this year have gotten the standard ABB offer, whereas only half of the biology applicants doing IB I've talked to on TSR got the standard offer, the rest of us got an even higher one (38 points - the equivalent of 5 A's at A levels). This seems incredibly unfair to me, and I was going to bring it up with an Imperial admissions officer visiting my school, but I somehow didn't get the chance. Any ideas as to why this is? Do they just not like the IB?
Hahah, I've been trying to let this go, but sitting for hours over my higher chemistry revision book and wondering how in the world I'm going to get a 6, I couldn't help but be a little bitter imagining the A levels students sprawled on a couch somewhere watching tv (I'm exaggerating, I realize).
Just thought this link was interesting.
Why did they decide to change the standard medicine offer so drastically? I mean, it makes more sense this way (getting 32 points is, in most cases, a piece of cake) but it's a pretty big and rather sudden jump. Those applying this year were lucky I guess
Ha, I find it ironic how the UCAS tariff system (which will be implemented in 2008) claims that 36 points, the standard Imperial offer for zoology, is the equivalent of a whopping 4 A's and a B at A levels... whereas the standard A levels offer is ONE A, and two B's. In addition, practically all the A levels applicants for biology at Imperial I've spoken to this year have gotten the standard ABB offer, whereas only half of the biology applicants doing IB I've talked to on TSR got the standard offer, the rest of us got an even higher one (38 points - the equivalent of 5 A's at A levels). This seems incredibly unfair to me, and I was going to bring it up with an Imperial admissions officer visiting my school, but I somehow didn't get the chance. Any ideas as to why this is? Do they just not like the IB?
Hahah, I've been trying to let this go, but sitting for hours over my higher chemistry revision book and wondering how in the world I'm going to get a 6, I couldn't help but be a little bitter imagining the A levels students sprawled on a couch somewhere watching tv (I'm exaggerating, I realize
).The problem is that IB and A-levels are two very different courses..
I think to achieve equality between the two courses, Imperial would have to give offers of AAA for A-level and 666 for Higher Level ONLY (i.e. no overall requirements, no requirements in SL subjects, etc). However this would defeat the purpose of doing the IB. Somehow, a balance has to be struck between getting good grades all round in the IB and excelling in the three highers to equate to an A-level score but inevitably because the courses are so different there's going to be difficulty...
My offer at St. George's Hospital is 32 points though ... although I suspect they'll follow suit with their IB policy too...
I think to achieve equality between the two courses, Imperial would have to give offers of AAA for A-level and 666 for Higher Level ONLY (i.e. no overall requirements, no requirements in SL subjects, etc). However this would defeat the purpose of doing the IB. Somehow, a balance has to be struck between getting good grades all round in the IB and excelling in the three highers to equate to an A-level score but inevitably because the courses are so different there's going to be difficulty...
My offer at St. George's Hospital is 32 points though
... although I suspect they'll follow suit with their IB policy too...Yeah, good point. They're quite different really, and seeing as there's so many varied systems (IB, A levels, the other superior Asian programs - as our kind IB-dissing friend pointed out ...) out there, it'll always be difficult to give out offers that are equivalent in the sense that they require students to put in an equal amount of work and possess similar academic potential.
32 points?! Congratulations Naimslim, you're one lucky ducky. I realized that I can maybe afford the luxury of getting one 5, providing I get at least one 7. Do you know what your predicted grades are, and if not, what do you plan/hope to acheive?
...) out there, it'll always be difficult to give out offers that are equivalent in the sense that they require students to put in an equal amount of work and possess similar academic potential.32 points?! Congratulations Naimslim, you're one lucky ducky.
I realized that I can maybe afford the luxury of getting one 5, providing I get at least one 7. Do you know what your predicted grades are, and if not, what do you plan/hope to acheive?ooh my friend last year was offered 32 pts from St George as well. she got 41 in the end LOL. stupid UCL/KCL/ICL rejected her without even an interview
But the point is not the total grade. Honestly, there is a big difference between doing math, phys and chem HL and doing ITGS or environmental studies. + my exam schedule is a mess whilst other people have several days between each exam, such things will certainly influence your performance without being an indicator of intelligence...
But you don't know whether he or she DID take higher biology and chemistry and maths and such. If they did, then maybe their personal statement was quite bad? Or perhaps they did not-so-well over the two years, and just went all out in revising for the final exams... so their potential wasn't reflected in their predicted grades. Each case is different.
My exam schedule is packed too, I start on the 3rd and end on the 18th, and I think I only have one exam-less day. And on one day I have three exams. *mopes*
My exam schedule is packed too, I start on the 3rd and end on the 18th, and I think I only have one exam-less day. And on one day I have three exams. *mopes*
My exam schedule is packed too, I start on the 3rd and end on the 18th, and I think I only have one exam-less day. And on one day I have three exams. *mopes*
Exactly, I think that is quite unfair, especially the pairing A1 language self-taught + math HL on the same day, I hate it!
I still think the total grade is a rubish indicator.
The_Luvbster
32 points?! Congratulations Naimslim, you're one lucky ducky. I realized that I can maybe afford the luxury of getting one 5, providing I get at least one 7. Do you know what your predicted grades are, and if not, what do you plan/hope to acheive?
Thanks
My predicted grades are 776, 776 for Chem HL, Bio HL, Maths HL, English SL, French SL, Psych SL in that order... However whether or not I'll achieve them, I dunno, we'll have to wait and see!! I hope to achieve 775 MINIMUM in chem bio and maths (5 in maths HL loll) and as for the SL subjects, I guess 666 will do but I'd like a 7 in English and French.. heck I'd like 7s in all of them, who wouldn't? Lol.I'd be *OK* if I got 32 points, I'd be dissapointed because I've lost sleep over the IB but it wouldn't be too tragic as I'd still be going to medical school.
aimee22
ooh my friend last year was offered 32 pts from St George as well. she got 41 in the end LOL. stupid UCL/KCL/ICL rejected her without even an interview
Congrats to her! Owch about the rejections though, but unfortunately with medical school it's not exactly like applying for Chemistry or something which is undoubtedly easier to get into at the said universities... I applied to Imperial College London and was rejected without interview, reason being my BMAT was (by 0.4 of a point) too low to be given an interview!!
chrisjorg
But the point is not the total grade. Honestly, there is a big difference between doing math, phys and chem HL and doing ITGS or environmental studies. + my exam schedule is a mess whilst other people have several days between each exam, such things will certainly influence your performance without being an indicator of intelligence...
True. Hence that's why my offer is not "32 points", but 665 at HL and 555 at SL -- they're quite specific about the conditions in ALL subjects whereas most other unis only care about the HL scores.
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