The Student Room Group

What is real seduction?

I prefer staying anonymous to get unbiased answers.

This is a question that just crossed my mind while I was looking at all my peers having parties and having fun :biggrin: as every saturday night.
I noticed that many of my university peers, both male and female, are starting to experience their first surges of promiscuity only now. Many of them have had no experience during secondary school, and are now trying their best to "change" and sew their wild oats before it's too late... :biggrin:

Some of my peers (especially male) carry around small books with titles like "Seduction methods" and other self-help books of that kind.
I was curious... and what I saw is that most advice written on those books was about absolutely normal and obvious behaviour... simply with complicated words.
As far as I understood, most of these "seduction" books merely try to help guys with getting a more loose and open attitude, identify girls with loose and open attitudes... and "***** 20 women a day". :rolleyes:

Now... my question is: Aren't all these books suggesting something that is actually FAR from actual seduction?
From what I know (and historical seducers), a real seducer is an ambitious person who looks more at quality and challenge rather than quantity.

i.e., is it such a challenge to go to a nightclub and shag the first horny, willing girls/guys within your reach? That's the easiest thing one could do!
You agree with me?

A challenge is when you work and conquer the heart (and something else...) of someone who in first place would not sleep with you.
A challenge is when you are a beggar and your "target" is a princess.
When you are fat and ugly (as most historical seducers were) and yet irresistible to those who would normally be "out of your league".

You get my idea: is shagging around really "seducing"?

Reply 1

I see your point. But most uni students don't have time for that, and nor is it likely they will succeed in 'seducing' as you put it. I imagine the individuals you're describing would be slightly older and somewhat bored of the 'easy' way and looking for a challenge?

Reply 2

The fat and ugly seducers you refer to were generally very rich and powerful. People will always be attracted to those who possess money and power, no matter how fat or ugly they are.

Reply 3

seduction books are part of the capitalist industry that surrounds people having a desire to want to find a partner, just like paying for dating agencies and make-up/beauty industries as well

I've never read a seduction book other than 'excerpts' that appear in magazines and websites and by and large the content is along the lines of encouraging men to be aloof from women, treat them inferior and so on as this makes them 'attractive'. That sort of advice might be fair enough for a gorgeous stud to go along with but if Mr Average/Ugly tries that he's not going to be seen as a challenging badboy, just a knobhead.

However I understand what you are getting at in the concept of 'seducing' someone that in the first place wouldn't be interested in you and I think it can happen in cases where somebody has complete self-confidence in themselves but doesn't manifest that in putting the person they are trying to get down. To a certain extent this happened to me a couple of years ago, a girl who I didn't find particularly attractive started chatting to me and was very direct in asking me out and driving the relationship forwards. I didn't really fancy her at first but her charm and confidence meant I gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought I'd go along with it, and I started to get really into her after a while.

Another example happened to one of my female friends, she is absolutely gorgeous and one time started getting chatted up by a man who was 8 years older than her, married, bald and not particularly attractive (although he did have a good body). When she first told me about him coming onto her she was taking the mick out of him but after a few weeks she started to change her mind and said he was a really good friend, and a month or so later she was getting stressed because she wanted him but he wouldn't leave his wife for her!

These cases of winning somebody over I don't believe will have come from reading a script from a seduction book just by being charming and the absence of self doubt.

Reply 4

You know those girls who go to clubs wearing short skirts are after one thing...........
















A good time! (AS IN A 'LAUGH' AND 'FUN')

Reply 5

I mean fat and ugly but with really good charisma... oh yes, there are some (very few) of them who are really smart at what they do, no matter how much money they earn.

Anyway, my question is:
can shagging around with other horny people actually be regarded as "seducing"? I mean: what's the effort one puts in such circumstances?

Reply 6

in reality, does that much shaggin go on with people uve just met in a club?

Reply 7

Anonymous
Anyway, my question is:
can shagging around with other horny people actually be regarded as "seducing"? I mean: what's the effort one puts in such circumstances?


I don't think going after casual sex with others who want the same thing could be described as seduction. To me, seduction suggests that the person being seduced doesn't originally want sex, and it is the skill of the seducer to convince them that they do. Seduction without deliberate effort isn't really seduction at all, since it's an active process.

It sounds like the "seduction guides" you're talking about are just casual sex guides.

Reply 8

Traditionally, 'seduction' denotes artful persuasion with a view to congress; 'persuasion' being the operative word. It involves an element of discrimination (usually mutual) between 'prospect' and 'prospector', and requires a modicum of 'baseline' adversity (e.g. sex with a nun, where her religious convictions impose celibacy; sex with someone who, but for the vicissitudes of inducement, would deem themselves 'out of your league'; sex in a war-zone; et cetera).

I would, however, contend that although 'to seduce' in its verbal form necessitates an 'active process' as undertaken by an agent toward an 'object of seduction', it is entirely possible to be seduced by way of latent factors introduced into a motivation-equation (e.g. power, wealth, abs, whatever; though typically something enticing hedonism at the expense of stoicism) without any 'active' component attaching thereto: 'seduction' merely as a transition undergone by a subject, if you will, rather than that practised by the aforementioned 'seducer'. The art of seduction, as such, derives crucially from a conscious effort to effect the latter: by intentionally demonstrating power; deliberately flaunting wealth; knowingly exhibiting abs, and so forth.

Reply 9

Watch Cruel Intentions. That's seduction. Pulling someone in a club is just mutual horniness.

Reply 10

Profesh
Traditionally, 'seduction' denotes artful persuasion with a view to congress; 'persuasion' being the operative word. It involves an element of discrimination (usually mutual) between 'prospect' and 'prospector', and requires a modicum of 'baseline' adversity (e.g. sex with a nun, where her religious convictions impose celibacy; sex with someone who, but for the vicissitudes of inducement, would deem themselves 'out of your league'; sex in a war-zone; et cetera).

I would, however, contend that although 'to seduce' in its verbal form necessitates an 'active process' as undertaken by an agent toward an 'object of seduction', it is entirely possible to be seduced by way of latent factors introduced into a motivation-equation (e.g. power, wealth, abs, whatever; though typically something enticing hedonism at the expense of stoicism) without any 'active' component attaching thereto: 'seduction' merely as a transition undergone by a subject, if you will, rather than that practised by the aforementioned 'seducer'. The art of seduction, as such, derives crucially from a conscious effort to effect the latter: by intentionally demonstrating power; deliberately flaunting wealth; knowingly exhibiting abs, and so forth.


Let's put that through the Profesh Translator (v2.0) shall we?

ROUGH TRANSLATION
Typical seductionists are good at persuasding others to do the no-pants-dance (sex). Particularly if the conquest involves a challenge or taboo of some sort.

Although seduction may be an active process, it is possible to feel attracted to someone due to other factors (factors leading to pleasue that's usually requires the person to throw caution to the winds).

Attraction is just a state of mind. Seduction therefore try to trigger this reaction by "intentionally demonstrating power; deliberately flaunting wealth; knowingly exhibiting abs, and so forth."


Are you always so wordy Profesh? :rolleyes:

Reply 11

Profesh
Traditionally, 'seduction' denotes artful persuasion with a view to congress; 'persuasion' being the operative word. It involves an element of discrimination (usually mutual) between 'prospect' and 'prospector', and requires a modicum of 'baseline' adversity (e.g. sex with a nun, where her religious convictions impose celibacy; sex with someone who, but for the vicissitudes of inducement, would deem themselves 'out of your league'; sex in a war-zone; et cetera).

I would, however, contend that although 'to seduce' in its verbal form necessitates an 'active process' as undertaken by an agent toward an 'object of seduction', it is entirely possible to be seduced by way of latent factors introduced into a motivation-equation (e.g. power, wealth, abs, whatever; though typically something enticing hedonism at the expense of stoicism) without any 'active' component attaching thereto: 'seduction' merely as a transition undergone by a subject, if you will, rather than that practised by the aforementioned 'seducer'. The art of seduction, as such, derives crucially from a conscious effort to effect the latter: by intentionally demonstrating power; deliberately flaunting wealth; knowingly exhibiting abs, and so forth.


the intellectual approach , completely agree and get your train of thought..

Reply 12

Helenia
Watch Cruel Intentions. That's seduction. Pulling someone in a club is just mutual horniness.


Watch Dangerous liaisons, or indeed read the original book, which Cruel Intentions is based on, for a much better version of seduction by a very wicked, bad man (John Malkovich is brilliant-far superior to Ryan Phillippe), anyway enough from the film critic... I agree on the last point, shagging someone you met in a club is horniness, definately NOT seduction!

Reply 13

recently, partly due to the advent of the internet, people who like to go out and chat up girls have formed groups where they swap tips and techniques in order to become better at what they do for fun these Pick up artists often detach themselves from the impact of their actions - see use of 'sarging' instead of 'seduction' for an example. There are some people who are INCREDIBLY good at it - rediculously good, although to be fair, alot of it is applying a scientific/psychological method to the art of seduction, turning it into strategy, rather than the often ad-libbed methods used by many.

Reply 14

natsing
Watch Dangerous liaisons, or indeed read the original book, which Cruel Intentions is based on, for a much better version of seduction by a very wicked, bad man (John Malkovich is brilliant-far superior to Ryan Phillippe), anyway enough from the film critic... I agree on the last point, shagging someone you met in a club is horniness, definately NOT seduction!

Meh, Dangerous liaisons is very good, but I think Ryan Phillippe's seduction of Reese Witherspoon is pretty much perfect - in DL it's slightly too sinister.

Reply 15

Shaging around is NOT seduction.

seduction, for me, goes on for a period of time, be it days, weeks or months. It's simple flirtation, but on a sophisticated level. Seduction isn't buying some girl drinks in a club or dancing with a boy in a suggestive manner.