why private schools only offer scholarships for creative subjects

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Anonymous1502
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I would like to go to a private six form however, I can't.I want to study medicine or law but private schools do not offer scholarships for science or humanities unfortunately, it is unfair that academic people cannot receive a scholarship.Only subjects such as drama,art and music can be offered a scholarship unfortunately why is that?
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DiddyDec01
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Academic scholarships are offered at some places, here are 2 I found from a 30 second google search.

http://www.deanclose.org.uk/sixth-form-scholarships
http://www.stgeorgesweybridge.com/si...s/scholarships
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Anonymous1502
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Academic scholarships are offered at some places, here are 2 I found from a 30 second google search.

http://www.deanclose.org.uk/sixth-form-scholarships
http://www.stgeorgesweybridge.com/si...s/scholarships
But I'm talking about private sixth forms in London, sorry for not being specific earlier on.Also about ones that are not boarding schools.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
But I'm talking about private sixth forms in London, sorry for not being specific earlier on.Also about ones that are not boarding schools.
Westminster offers 16+ bursaries of up to 100% for day pupils on the basis of academic merit and financial need.

https://www.westminster.org.uk/admis...hips-bursaries
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Anonymous1502
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Westminster offers 16+ bursaries of up to 100% for day pupils on the basis of academic merit and financial need.

https://www.westminster.org.uk/admis...hips-bursaries
I looked at that school, but I would not want to go to that school. I thought about going to a grammar school instead of private. I looked at different results from different schools and grammar school tend to have better results from what I seen.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
I looked at that school, but I would not want to go to that school. I thought about going to a grammar school instead of private. I looked at different results from different schools and grammar school tend to have better results from what I seen.
Grammar schools do not generally have better results than London academic independent day schools.

City of London has up to 1/4 fee academic scholarships at 16

https://www.westminster.org.uk/admis...hips-bursaries

but almost certainly a real poor pupil would get extra financial support from one of the livery companies.
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troubadour.
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
I would like to go to a private six form however, I can't.I want to study medicine or law but private schools do not offer scholarships for science or humanities unfortunately, it is unfair that academic people cannot receive a scholarship.Only subjects such as drama,art and music can be offered a scholarship unfortunately why is that?
(Original post by Anonymous1502)
I looked at that school, but I would not want to go to that school. I thought about going to a grammar school instead of private. I looked at different results from different schools and grammar school tend to have better results from what I seen.
You're awfully picky for somebody who's essentially asking for a free ride on the big rollercoaster.

Grammar schools don't generally have better results than private schools although the standard of education is often like a private school. While results need to be looked at, they're only a record of what others have done, not what you can or will do there. If you're not cut out for A Levels, as some people aren't, going to an expensive private school or a grammar school that gets good results isn't going to buy you good results. Sorry if that shatters some illusions.
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Anonymous1502
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(Original post by Hydeman)
You're awfully picky for somebody who's essentially asking for a free ride on the big rollercoaster.

Grammar schools don't generally have better results than private schools although the standard of education is often like a private school. While results need to be looked at, they're only a record of what others have done, not what you can or will do there. If you're not cut out for A Levels, as some people aren't, going to an expensive private school or a grammar school that gets good results isn't going to buy you good results. Sorry if that shatters some illusions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...e-schools.html
Now if you look at this website, it shows clearly that the sixth forms with the best results are mostly grammar schools.
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troubadour.
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...e-schools.html
Now if you look at this website, it shows clearly that the sixth forms with the best results are mostly grammar schools.
Now if you look at the same website, you'll see that only two of the top 15 schools are in London and only one of them is a grammar school. It's easy to copy/paste a link; it's a little bit harder to scrutinise the data. Not to mention that league tables change every year so to hold up this year's league tables as some sort of hard evidence of excellence is disingenuous at best.

Even if you were right, and you're not, it doesn't take away from my point about results being an important detail but certainly not any guarantee that you'll do well -- there are a handful of people at each of these top 15 schools who probably failed miserably so it's important to note that merely going to a grammar or private school will not necessarily get you good results. It's much more about your own ability -- if it wasn't, there wouldn't be quite a few people in poorly-performing state schools who excel. If anything, it could be said that people in grammars and private schools have higher success rates because they were already quite brilliant; otherwise they wouldn't have got in.

The bottomline is this: getting into a grammar or private school is no golden bullet that will guarantee you get good results so you'd be best advised to shop a little more widely than just grammar and private schools whose scholarships you feel entitled to. There are plenty of excellent non-selective state schools that won't cost you a penny in London; have a look at them as well.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by Hydeman)
Now if you look at the same website, you'll see that only two of the top 15 schools are in London and only one of them is a grammar school. It's easy to copy/past a link; it's a little bit harder to scrutinise the data. Not to mention that league tables change every year so to hold up this year's league tables as some sort of hard evidence of excellence is disingenuous at best.

Even if you were right, and you're not, it doesn't take away from my point about results being an important detail but certainly not any guarantee that you'll do well -- there are a handful people at each of these top 15 schools who probably failed miserably so it's important to note that merely going to a grammar or private school will not necessarily get you good results. It's much more about your own ability -- if it wasn't, there wouldn't be people in poorly-performing state schools who excel.

The bottomline is this: getting into a grammar or private school is no golden bullet that will ensure you get good results so you'd be best advised to shop a little more widely than just private schools whose scholarships you feel entitled to and grammars. There are plenty of excellent non-selective state schools that won't cost you a penny in London; have a look at them as well.
To be honest grammar schools yes.... why? entry exams etc, many members not actually being from particularity rich families. While they generally are better, along with the teachers, a student who doesn't wish to learn will still fail.

Private schools, mixed with private tuition given in the school and externally... no, I would completely disagree. It's partially why university can be such a shock for many privately educated individuals. You can be rather bad or mediocre educationally but in such an environment still end up with mostly B's and A's. At university I've seen private schoolers who've had such results and completely flunk their degrees and they all have no idea why.

I still find it quite funny how people still deny the fact your education can affect your final grades with this whole fallacy that the individuals effort and drive is the sole decider in grades. If you take two identical individuals, take them all the way through two different school systems of course the result will be different. Though I will admit, two years during 6th form would be noticeable but rather minimal in the scheme of things.
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troubadour.
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(Original post by DanB1991)
To be honest grammar schools yes.... why? entry exams etc, many members not actually being from particularity rich families. While they generally are better, along with the teachers, a student who doesn't wish to learn will still fail.
My point in a nutshell. I haven't looked at the statistics for it but grammar schools do have a reputation for having a lot of children from rich families who've sought to both save themselves the money of sending their kids to a private school while still giving them a private-like education. That's actually one of the counterarguments made when it comes to grammar schools: One person claims they're the best thing for poor kids who're bright only to be gently reminded by his opponent that there is quite a lot of classist bullying in some grammar schools. I think it's ethically dubious for anybody who isn't poor to be sending their child to a grammar school, in effect taking a place from somebody who's equally bright but doesn't have the option of private schools.

Private schools, mixed with private tuition given in the school and externally... no, I would completely disagree. It's partially why university can be such a shock for many privately educated individuals. You can be rather bad or mediocre educationally but in such an environment still end up with mostly B's and A's. At university I've seen private schoolers who've had such results and completely flunk their degrees and they all have no idea why.
I've no idea what you're saying yes and no to exactly. :lol: Fair point about private schools not providing the right sort of training though. The OP should take heed of that advice.

I still find it quite funny how people still deny the fact your education can affect your final grades with this whole fallacy that the individuals effort and drive is the sole decider in grades. If you take two identical individuals, take them all the way through two different school systems of course the result will be different. Though I will admit, two years during 6th form would be noticeable but rather minimal in the scheme of things.
I haven't denied that. Nor did I say that individual effort is the sole decider -- you seem to be talking generally about people rather than anything I've said. My point to the OP still stands: private and grammar schools are no golden bullet to good results so if the intention behind her pursuing them is to get handed good grades without much effort, it ain't gonna happen.

Back to the topic of scholarships: There's nothing unfair about only having scholarships for drama, music, arts etc. Those are things which require talent that needs to be honed for years and years; whereas just about anybody can get good grades in the sciences or humanities with enough hard work. OP, if you're really bent on going to a private school on a scholarship, I'd take the Westminster one. 'I would not like to go to that school' is no reason for somebody who has little to bargain with -- you want a private school for no charge so you have limited choice; Westminster will have plenty of people willing to take them up on a scholarship and, as such, don't particularly need you. Beggars can't be choosers.
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earthworm
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Cough, sports
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DanB1991
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(Original post by Hydeman)
I've no idea what you're saying yes and no to exactly. :lol: Fair point about private schools not providing the right sort of training though. The OP should take heed of that advice.
Tbh private school are great for extracurricular activities, training charisma, giving students a sense of confidence, getting the needed grades for uni etc.....

Which makes it all the worse when they get to uni, all the crutches are removed, and due to all their confidence etc they're completely flabbergasted on why they're not getting 1st's or 2:1's. Sadly however around 95% of such individuals I've met have been charismatic enough to wing it or have had their family (or family connections) to fall back onto.

All in all two years at sixth form won't make that much difference.... that said two years in a much inferior comprehensive (even though I cam from a comprehensive) completely shot my grades, especially my A levels which only just got me into uni.... which I actually did very well in.
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troubadour.
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Tbh private school are great for extracurricular activities, training charisma, giving students a sense of confidence, getting the needed grades for uni etc.....

Which makes it all the worse when they get to uni, all the crutches are removed, and due to all their confidence etc they're completely flabbergasted on why they're not getting 1st's or 2:1's. Sadly however around 95% of such individuals I've met have been charismatic enough to wing it or have had their family (or family connections) to fall back onto.

All in all two years at sixth form won't make that much difference.... that said two years in a much inferior comprehensive (even though I cam from a comprehensive) completely shot my grades, especially my A levels which only just got me into uni.... which I actually did very well in.
I agree. +1

Particularly the extracurricular stuff -- I find that quite galling as far as personal statements (which also more or less get written for students at private schools) go. Somebody from a state school is just unlikely to have those kinds of opportunities. I don't really regard it as a problem with a solution because it's deeply rooted in the national obsession with class in this country and that's something that's not going away in the near future.
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Anonymous1502
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(Original post by Hydeman)
Now if you look at the same website, you'll see that only two of the top 15 schools are in London and only one of them is a grammar school. It's easy to copy/past a link; it's a little bit harder to scrutinise the data. Not to mention that league tables change every year so to hold up this year's league tables as some sort of hard evidence of excellence is disingenuous at best.

Even if you were right, and you're not, it doesn't take away from my point about results being an important detail but certainly not any guarantee that you'll do well -- there are a handful of people at each of these top 15 schools who probably failed miserably so it's important to note that merely going to a grammar or private school will not necessarily get you good results. It's much more about your own ability -- if it wasn't, there wouldn't be quite a few people in poorly-performing state schools who excel. If anything, it could be said that people in grammars and private schools have higher success rates because they were already quite brilliant; otherwise they wouldn't have got in.

The bottomline is this: getting into a grammar or private school is no golden bullet that will guarantee you get good results so you'd be best advised to shop a little more widely than just grammar and private schools whose scholarships you feel entitled to. There are plenty of excellent non-selective state schools that won't cost you a penny in London; have a look at them as well.
For your information I have looked at these schools results and there are hardly any failed results, before saying anything i think you should actually look at the results at the schools websites before claimign that 'a handful of people who failed'
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troubadour.
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
For your information I have looked at these schools results and there are hardly any failed results, before saying anything i think you should actually look at the results at the schools websites before claimign that 'a handful of people who failed'
I think you forgot to quote the rather important word 'probably.' I'm happy to concede the point if you'll provide the data, despite your condescending tone. Of course, it's more or less impossible since you didn't actually name any schools to begin with so you could, theoretically, cherry-pick at this point to suit your argument. Besides 'hardly any' is still some and a single poor result is all I need to make my point.

I'll quote my post again since you don't seem to have actually read most of it:

(Original post by Hydeman)
Now if you look at the same website, you'll see that only two of the top 15 schools are in London and only one of them is a grammar school. It's easy to copy/paste a link; it's a little bit harder to scrutinise the data. Not to mention that league tables change every year so to hold up this year's league tables as some sort of hard evidence of excellence is disingenuous at best.

Even if you were right, and you're not, it doesn't take away from my point about results being an important detail but certainly not any guarantee that you'll do well -- there are a handful of people at each of these top 15 schools who probably failed miserably so it's important to note that merely going to a grammar or private school will not necessarily get you good results. It's much more about your own ability -- if it wasn't, there wouldn't be quite a few people in poorly-performing state schools who excel. If anything, it could be said that people in grammars and private schools have higher success rates because they were already quite brilliant; otherwise they wouldn't have got in.

The bottomline is this: getting into a grammar or private school is no golden bullet that will guarantee you get good results so you'd be best advised to shop a little more widely than just grammar and private schools whose scholarships you feel entitled to. There are plenty of excellent non-selective state schools that won't cost you a penny in London; have a look at them as well.
Important points highlighted/underlined to save you the trouble of actually reading my posts before replying to them.
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Anonymous1502
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(Original post by Hydeman)
I think you forgot to quote the rather important word 'probably.' I'm happy to concede the point if you'll provide the data, despite your condescending tone. Of course, it's more or less impossible since you didn't actually name any schools to begin with so you could, theoretically, cherry-pick at this point to suit your argument. Besides 'hardly any' is still some and a single poor result is all I need to make my point.

I'll quote my post again since you don't seem to have actually read most of it:



Important points highlighted/underlined to save you the trouble of actually reading my posts before replying to them.
This forum is meant to be about private schools and scholarships??And you keep talking about grammar schools?
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troubadour.
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
This forum is meant to be about private schools and scholarships??And you keep talking about grammar schools?
If you scroll up, I think you'll see that you mentioned them first:

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
I looked at that school, but I would not want to go to that school. I thought about going to a grammar school instead of private. I looked at different results from different schools and grammar school tend to have better results from what I seen.
If you don't want to address the arguments presented, just say so, I won't bite. You're a pretty poor debater though. :dontknow: Anyhow, I'm out of here.
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troubadour.
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
This forum is meant to be about private schools and scholarships??And you keep talking about grammar schools?
Also, I suggest you read some of my replies to other users on the thread -- there's one or two lines about scholarships there.
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