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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Well, I assume that the degree will have to start in a place where the majority are comfortable. Now I can only assume from their website that their standard intake is just above the B grade single maths student level. Unless you can show me differently, with stats about their UK student intake. I'm guessing that most people doing maths at trininty got their A grade in Alevel maths, and probably a few did some further modules, or perhaps the AEA.
    This is an Irish University, there intake is based on the irish school leaving certificate (sorry don't know it's proper name) not A level. As has been politly said several times the students sitting the irish exam cover what is equvelant to 2/3 of A Level maths ie the equivelant of an English student being taught 2/3 of the sylabus and then achieving B at A Level. If these students had taken A Level they would probably have no trouble achieving A grades.

    (Original post by fishpaste)

    I then acknowledge that the university isn't necessarily interested in covering the further maths alevel syllabus, and so they go off in a different direction, and cover say Sylow's theorem.
    Because they are not an English university, they are not following A Level syllabi.

    (Original post by fishpaste)
    But then I think, sometime on their course they're going to be covering all these topics which get done in the further maths alevel, and developing all these techniques that come about with STEP/AEA, and that takes students here about a year.
    It is an Irish university, it is not here. Do you know what irish students cover for their leaving certificate? I don't.

    (Original post by fishpaste)
    So to answer your question, I'm not saying somebody who has finished their first year at TCD is at the level of somebody starting their degree in IC, it doesn't make sense to compare because they've not even attempted to cover the same syllabuses. However, unless you can show me what their standard intake is of UK students and show that it's significantly higher than the A/B grade single maths student, I can only assume that they are starting further behind and moving slower.
    HUH? You arrogant *******. IT IS NOT AN ENGLISH UNIVERSITY. Why should it have a standard intake of UK students? If they only had one English applicant this year would you base your judgements on that one student? What about their intake from the rest of the world? Why should their offer for English students mean they are moving slower? If anything it implies they move faster.

    Their students on average have taken the rquivelant of 2/3 of an A Level and end up with a degree on a par with Oxford / Cambridge, to me that suggests they move faster.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    This is an Irish University, there intake is based on the irish school leaving certificate (sorry don't know it's proper name) not A level.
    Should they not be equivalent offers?

    Because they are not an English university, they are not following A Level syllabi.
    Yes because english universities are extensions of Alevels. :rolleyes: This fact is irrelevant.

    It is an Irish university, it is not here. Do you know what irish students cover for their leaving certificate? I don't.
    I conclude it's limited to alevel maths material, since they don't ask for anything else from English students.

    HUH? You arrogant *******. IT IS NOT AN ENGLISH UNIVERSITY. Why should it have a standard intake of UK students?
    Because universities are diverse and flexible institutions. I'm sure Trinity, like any English uni has students from England/Scotland/Ireland/Europe/US.

    If they only had one English applicant this year would you base your judgements on that one student?
    Yes, bearing in mind it was just one student.

    What about their intake from the rest of the world? Why should their offer for English students mean they are moving slower? If anything it implies they move faster.
    I wasn't referencing rates of material covered, I was merely saying that they start considerably behind the level at which Imperial students start at.

    Their students on average have taken the rquivelant of 2/3 of an A Level and end up with a degree on a par with Oxford / Cambridge, to me that suggests they move faster.
    Who says it's equivalent to an oxbridge degree, with all due respect?
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    (Original post by fishpaste)



    Who says it's equivalent to an oxbridge degree, with all due respect?
    why do you always say "with all due respect" when you don't mean it?
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    (Original post by sashh)
    why do you always say "with all due respect" when you don't mean it?
    I do mean it. I realise that I'm making quite a bold accusation here, that TCD is akin more to Glasgow or Cardiff than Oxbridge. And I want to let it be known that I respect TCD and their graduates. I could just boldly sit here and say "You're off yer rocker if you think TCD gets the same rep as Oxbridge."
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    The biggest difference between Trinity, Dublin (and all other Irish unis) and their counterparts in this country is that freshers in Ireland are 17 and have had only 5 years of secondary education in comparison to 7 years here.

    The fact they require equivalent qualifications from us that we take after 7 years would seem to imply that their standards are much more rigorous!

    They also study 7 subjects unlike our 3. And like us, have differing requirements for differing subjects so that in a less popular course entry standards are lower in comparison to more competitive courses. In Oxbridge it is much easier to get an offer for less popular courses such as Classics, Geography and Archaeology and Anthropology than for say, politics, English or Law.

    Any comparison between the best unis in Ireland and the best in the UK is obviously subjective, but OECD (the international registry of all aspects of different countries) rates the Irish education system higher than the British system.

    Outrageous, but true!
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I realise that I'm making quite a bold accusation here, that TCD is akin more to Glasgow or Cardiff than Oxbridge.
    That is so stupid, but not unexpected coming from an Englishman.

    You ever been abroad?
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    (Original post by vincent gallo)
    Really? It just doesnt have a high profile up here atall. I realise that doesnt make it a bad university. .
    galway is at least considered to be as good as ucd. qub is going down hill all the time.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    That is so stupid, but not unexpected coming from an Englishman.

    You ever been abroad?
    Jesus christ the entire thing's subjective anyway. Is there a point to this? I think TCD is akin to Glasgow/Cardiff, you guys think it's akin to Oxbridge. What everybody else thinks is hardly in our realms to judge. Create a poll if you want to be conclusive.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Jesus christ the entire thing's subjective anyway. Is there a point to this? I think TCD is akin to Glasgow/Cardiff, you guys think it's akin to Oxbridge. What everybody else thinks is hardly in our realms to judge. Create a poll if you want to be conclusive.
    What do you base your judgement on?
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    What do you base your judgement on?
    Reputations within the UK and the US. Entry grades.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Reputations within the UK and the US.
    Eh? Only because many people in this country know little about anything other than themselves and the country with the best Universities.

    I would suggest that people who have considered studying in Europe and have done research will have viewed TCD very favourably

    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Entry grades.
    How can this be relavent when you have two different education systems?

    I think ignorance is the problem here.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Eh? Only because many people in this country know little about anything other than themselves and the country with the best Universities.
    But how many employers are going to realise this? General perceptions matter.




    How can this be relavent when you have two different education systems?
    Because they will still take english students with english alevels or internationals with IB grades, it's fair to assume that if you wanted to goto Yale and substitute in Alevel grades you'd need 3/4 A grades, no?
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    But how many employers are going to realise this? General perceptions matter.
    It depends where you live, obviously.

    Doesn't seem you are planning on stepping out of the shell that is Britain.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    It depends where you live, obviously.

    Doesn't seem you are planning on stepping out of the shell that is Britain.
    but if you're going to compare TCD to Oxford, you've got to compare somewhere. If you're going to get caught up on objectivity, choose a third party, look at the US, the US citizens I've talked to regard Oxford in particular as substantially better than TCD. In fact I'd say most of them haven't heard of any european unis outside of Oxbridge, St Andrews, and La Sorbonne (if they're particularly interested in europe and just the UK/Ireland)
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Maybe an Oxbridge comparison is too much to expect but CERTAINLY more favourable than Glasgow or Cardiff.
    What's wrong with Glasgow or Cardiff? All three of them specify roughly the same standard for applicants.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    What's wrong with Glasgow or Cardiff? All three of them specify roughly the same standard for applicants.
    Erm.. not really. When you take into account the difficultly of Leaving Cert. and A-Levels (i.e. Leaving Cert. is considerably harder).
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Erm.. not really. When you take into account the difficultly of Leaving Cert. and A-Levels (i.e. Leaving Cert. is considerably harder).
    THen why aren't they demanding more from their Alevel applicants? Are you saying they are taking less able english students at the expense of more able Irish students?
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    This won't get anywhere, fishpaste is full of opinions but short on information, as was shown earlier in the thread.

    The crazy thing is that the very narrow view that so many British school leavers show is so similar to the equally fallacious narrow view of so many Irish school leavers who view UCAS as a convenient backup in the event that they don't do well enough to get into an Irish university

    I'm curious as to what ye conclude from that
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    (Original post by ecksor)
    This won't get anywhere, fishpaste is full of opinions but short on information, as was shown earlier in the thread.

    The crazy thing is that the very narrow view that so many British school leavers show is so similar to the equally fallacious narrow view of so many Irish school leavers who view UCAS as a convenient backup in the event that they don't do well enough to get into an Irish university

    I'm curious as to what ye conclude from that
    Nobody has explained to me why TCD take B grade single maths students onto their maths course. Though many people in this thread have simultaneously refused to acknowledge it's true whilst at the same time arguing it's a good thing. As in "That's not true! ..but really it just shows how good the uni is."

    I don't know what the big deal is, I'm sitting here saying TCD is not Oxbridge or even Imperial, I'm from Manchester and niether is Manchester equal to Oxbridge or Imperial. It doesn't kill me to acknowledge that, and it doesn't say anything particularly bad about Manchester or their students.

    Your second point is irrelevant, ultimately it just shows you see this discussion as a matter of petty nationalism.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Nobody has explained to me why TCD take B grade single maths students onto their maths course. Though many people in this thread have simultaneously refused to acknowledge it's true whilst at the same time arguing it's a good thing. As in "That's not true! ..but really it just shows how good the uni is."
    I thought I did actually. At any rate, I can't actually think of any Irish universities that requires an A in any subject to matriculate onto a particular course nor can I think of any students I've met doing the TCD maths course who didn't have an A from Leaving certificate maths (and usually an A in applied maths also).

    (Original post by fishpaste)
    I don't know what the big deal is, I'm sitting here saying TCD is not Oxbridge or even Imperial, I'm from Manchester and niether is Manchester equal to Oxbridge or Imperial. It doesn't kill me to acknowledge that, and it doesn't say anything particularly bad about Manchester or their students.
    I'm not particularly bothered about such comparisons, I'm just taking issue with the claims that you're making about the speed and standard of the mathematics degree at TCD. I base this on looking very closely at a lot of mathematics curricula in Ireland and Britain over the last year and a bit as I was making choices myself about where to study. Your counter-argument seems to just be some entrance standard you read on a website somewhere. I don't know how to get you past your A-level entrance grade obsession to convince you of this though.

    Also, while there's a depressing trend for strong mathematics students to want to do financial or actuarial mathematics courses, the bulk of the strong Irish mathematics students who want to study mathematics in an Irish university will want to study at TCD. That influences the standard of the students entering.

    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Your second point is irrelevant, ultimately it just shows you see this discussion as a matter of petty nationalism.
    Ok, you're sharper than I thought. I don't see it as a matter of petty nationalism, I see it as a product of nationalism and also just the narrow views that secondary school students usually have. I won't call your nationalist educational influences petty if you'll do the courtesy of reciprocating. I wonder if you know enough about Irish nationalist attitudes to make such judgements.

    With all due respect.

    There's another way of reading it though, which is that different country's methods of entrance into universities aren't easy to compare. Therefore I find it amusing that in Ireland a British university is seen as the inferior option and you're obviously seeing the Irish universities as the same. It's down to bias and an obsession with the 'currency' that is what it takes to get into a specific course. (in our case the points system and in your case whatever the entrance offers you received are).
 
 
 
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