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School entered wrong predicted grade on UCAS form watch

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    My daughter has just been rejected by KCL - she had applied to read PPE, for which the required grades are A* / A / A - they said that the reason for rejection was that she would not meet the predicted grade requirement. However, her predicted grades were indeed A* / A / A, according to her school - so it seems that they made a mistake with one of them, as checking on her school record form, it says A* / A / B.
    There had been a question as to whether or not her Philosophy grade would be a B or an A, but ages ago - in early September- they had agreed that she is an A candidate by virtue of her year's work (never went below an A) even though her AS (AQA) in Philosophy was weak (a C, one UMS below a B - incredible, according to her teachers - she got As in her other subjects including two modules at 100% and 95%) We had established the A estimate with them several times over, in writing.
    The Philosophy dept. were absolutely definite that her prediction would be an A (she is re-sitting the AS) so it was not a case of them deciding in the end to make it a B. Of course, we are absolutely devastated - this affects all her choices, obviously, and we do not know what to do. If it had been a B, then she would never have applied to KCL or UCL or Bristol - so if it stays as a B even tho that is wrong, that is 3 completely wasted choices.
    It is Half Term at her school & no one is there until the 3rd - it is over 7 days since her form went in. Does anyone have any advice as to what we can do? Sorry for the long-winded post. We don't know if we should contact UCAS - we have emailed the relevant teachers but of course it is Half Term, so no replies.
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    (Original post by dontargue)
    My daughter has just been rejected by KCL - she had applied to read PPE, for which the required grades are A* / A / A - they said that the reason for rejection was that she would not meet the predicted grade requirement. However, her predicted grades were indeed A* / A / A, according to her school - so it seems that they made a mistake with one of them, as checking on her school record form, it says A* / A / B.
    There had been a question as to whether or not her Philosophy grade would be a B or an A, but ages ago - in early September- they had agreed that she is an A candidate by virtue of her year's work (never went below an A) even though her AS (AQA) in Philosophy was weak (a C, one UMS below a B - incredible, according to her teachers - she got As in her other subjects including two modules at 100% and 95%) We had established the A estimate with them several times over, in writing.
    The Philosophy dept. were absolutely definite that her prediction would be an A (she is re-sitting the AS) so it was not a case of them deciding in the end to make it a B. Of course, we are absolutely devastated - this affects all her choices, obviously, and we do not know what to do. If it had been a B, then she would never have applied to KCL or UCL or Bristol - so if it stays as a B even tho that is wrong, that is 3 completely wasted choices.
    It is Half Term at her school & no one is there until the 3rd - it is over 7 days since her form went in. Does anyone have any advice as to what we can do? Sorry for the long-winded post. We don't know if we should contact UCAS - we have emailed the relevant teachers but of course it is Half Term, so no replies.
    I don't think there is anything you can do until there are staff in the school to deal with it.

    Then you need to take it up with the school. Either this is a mistake in which case you need to get the school (preferably the head personally) to do some grovelling to the universities or it isn't. Having the head grovel may not achieve anything but it is the best that can be done.

    Don't approach UCAS; don't approach the universities yourself or have your daughter do so. The best chance of reversing any decision or obtaining special consideration is the first chance and you do not want to queer the pitch for the school. Once they have said, "it can't be done" to you or your daughter (and that is what they will say) they will have to maintain that line to the school.

    However, I think you need to be prepared for the possibility that this is not a mistake at all. Most schools have a moderation process by which predicted grades are not determined by a single teacher but are ultimately set at senior management level. Your daughter was a marginal candidate and someone (perhaps the head of VIth form) may have decided to put her below the line rather than above it.

    If that is the case, your complaint is a different one; that your daughter has been misled about her predicted grades. They aren't going to change anything with UCAS over that. How far you get with that complaint is likely to depend on how "official" the communication of her estimated grades were. Schools have varying policies here. There are pupils on TSR who have to apply to university without a clue as to what their teachers are going to predict; there are pupils who apply possessing a formal statement from the school as to what they will predict and everything in between. Other than the satisfaction of having a complaint upheld; this isn't actually going to do your daughter any good.

    Assuming she selected universities with a spread of grade requirements, she is likely to get offers from her safety choices. If not, then she will be able to make a sixth choice in Extra.

    Assuming when the results come out she then exceeds any offer she accepts (and that is a reason for accepting an offer somewhere, even if she has no intention of going there*; Adjustment is only available to those who exceed their offers) she will have a chance in Adjustment which allows her to keep her existing place whilst looking elsewhere. UCL is unlikely to be in Adjustment. Most other places will be.

    She will also have the option of a gap year and reapplying with known grades for 2017 entry. If she does get AAA or better, she will of course be a viable candidate for the Oxford PPE course.

    Whilst this failure on the part of the school might have cost her a year, if she gets what you believed would be her predicted grades is unlikely to have cost her a place. Her real loss is she will have lost the chance of being predicted A*AA, achieving A*AB and being let in despite not meeting her grades. She can never regain that.

    * One word of caution. This does mean that she will not have fist pick in Clearing if she doesn't exceed her offer because she will be sitting on an offer and if she doesn't want to go there she will need to be released. However, I suspect that rather than going into Clearing, she would take a gap year and reflect.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I don't think there is anything you can do until there are staff in the school to deal with it.

    Then you need to take it up with the school. Either this is a mistake in which case you need to get the school (preferably the head personally) to do some grovelling to the universities or it isn't. Having the head grovel may not achieve anything but it is the best that can be done.

    Don't approach UCAS; don't approach the universities yourself or have your daughter do so. The best chance of reversing any decision or obtaining special consideration is the first chance and you do not want to queer the pitch for the school. Once they have said, "it can't be done" to you or your daughter (and that is what they will say) they will have to maintain that line to the school.

    However, I think you need to be prepared for the possibility that this is not a mistake at all. Most schools have a moderation process by which predicted grades are not determined by a single teacher but are ultimately set at senior management level. Your daughter was a marginal candidate and someone (perhaps the head of VIth form) may have decided to put her below the line rather than above it.

    If that is the case, your complaint is a different one; that your daughter has been misled about her predicted grades. They aren't going to change anything with UCAS over that. How far you get with that complaint is likely to depend on how "official" the communication of her estimated grades were. Schools have varying policies here. There are pupils on TSR who have to apply to university without a clue as to what their teachers are going to predict; there are pupils who apply possessing a formal statement from the school as to what they will predict and everything in between. Other than the satisfaction of having a complaint upheld; this isn't actually going to do your daughter any good.

    Assuming she selected universities with a spread of grade requirements, she is likely to get offers from her safety choices. If not, then she will be able to make a sixth choice in Extra.

    Assuming when the results come out she then exceeds any offer she accepts (and that is a reason for accepting an offer somewhere, even if she has no intention of going there*; Adjustment is only available to those who exceed their offers) she will have a chance in Adjustment which allows her to keep her existing place whilst looking elsewhere. UCL is unlikely to be in Adjustment. Most other places will be.

    She will also have the option of a gap year and reapplying with known grades for 2017 entry. If she does get AAA or better, she will of course be a viable candidate for the Oxford PPE course.

    Whilst this failure on the part of the school might have cost her a year, if she gets what you believed would be her predicted grades is unlikely to have cost her a place. Her real loss is she will have lost the chance of being predicted A*AA, achieving A*AB and being let in despite not meeting her grades. She can never regain that.

    * One word of caution. This does mean that she will not have fist pick in Clearing if she doesn't exceed her offer because she will be sitting on an offer and if she doesn't want to go there she will need to be released. However, I suspect that rather than going into Clearing, she would take a gap year and reflect.
    Thank you for your advice. With regard to the 'official' nature of the grade estimate, it was very much official: both the Head of Department and the Senior Management Team had agreed it, in writing to us, and just as we were preparing to send off her UCAS form she spoke to the senior man who said yes, do not worry, it will definitely say A on your UCAS form.

    If, as you suggest, they may have changed their minds and put it in as a B, then I don't think we can let that lie. If she had known that she was predicted a B, she would never, never, never have put KCL, UCL and Bristol as three of her choices - which effectively means that she has been denied three chances - she would have instead applied to Southampton, which she had been dithering over and where the standard offer for someone taking A Level Politics is BBB.

    Her other two choices are Leeds (standard offer AAB) and Birmingham (standard offer ABB) which in theory should mean that she will get an offer from one or both - she loved both & would be happy to go to either. However, we are very concerned that the B estimate will still look bad, since it's in one of the subjects she wants to do.
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    (Original post by dontargue)
    My daughter has just been rejected by KCL - she had applied to read PPE, for which the required grades are A* / A / A - they said that the reason for rejection was that she would not meet the predicted grade requirement. However, her predicted grades were indeed A* / A / A, according to her school - so it seems that they made a mistake with one of them, as checking on her school record form, it says A* / A / B.
    There had been a question as to whether or not her Philosophy grade would be a B or an A, but ages ago - in early September- they had agreed that she is an A candidate by virtue of her year's work (never went below an A) even though her AS (AQA) in Philosophy was weak (a C, one UMS below a B - incredible, according to her teachers - she got As in her other subjects including two modules at 100% and 95%) We had established the A estimate with them several times over, in writing.
    The Philosophy dept. were absolutely definite that her prediction would be an A (she is re-sitting the AS) so it was not a case of them deciding in the end to make it a B. Of course, we are absolutely devastated - this affects all her choices, obviously, and we do not know what to do. If it had been a B, then she would never have applied to KCL or UCL or Bristol - so if it stays as a B even tho that is wrong, that is 3 completely wasted choices.
    It is Half Term at her school & no one is there until the 3rd - it is over 7 days since her form went in. Does anyone have any advice as to what we can do? Sorry for the long-winded post. We don't know if we should contact UCAS - we have emailed the relevant teachers but of course it is Half Term, so no replies.
    If there has been a mistake, then the school can rectify it and KCL can reconsider her. I know someone who was rejected last year by a university because "they did not meet the requirements". . They knew that they did (As a Scottish student they already had their results) so they called and emailed the university in question and politely asked if they could tell her what requirements she failed to meet. 10 days later she got an email saying they would consider her application and went on to get an unconditional offer.

    Given that many people haven't even put their applications in yet- I don't think you need to worry about the fact that it is half term or that it might take a week or so to sort out.

    However- Even if all of that happens it doesn't mean she will get an offer. However harsh you or the school or your daughter feel her Philosophy exam was she got got a C in a subject she wishes to study at university and there will be many students who will have A's. .

    What are her other subjects? Does she have straight A's in her other A/s subjects or just the ones she is continuing to A level? Did she take politics and maths which are liked by PPE courses? Did she get a string of A* in her GCSE's ? Unfortunately she is applying for a very competitive course where there will be may more students with the requirements than places for the course. That doesn't mean you (or preferably your daughter) shouldn't question the predicted grade and sort it out if their is a mistake but in the end universities might well question an A prediction from a C grade- as a prediction 2 grades higher is always something they will look at
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    (Original post by watchingyouwatch)
    If there has been a mistake, then the school can rectify it and KCL can reconsider her. I know someone who was rejected last year by a university because "they did not meet the requirements". . They knew that they did (As a Scottish student they already had their results) so they called and emailed the university in question and politely asked if they could tell her what requirements she failed to meet. 10 days later she got an email saying they would consider her application and went on to get an unconditional offer.

    Given that many people haven't even put their applications in yet- I don't think you need to worry about the fact that it is half term or that it might take a week or so to sort out.

    However- Even if all of that happens it doesn't mean she will get an offer. However harsh you or the school or your daughter feel her Philosophy exam was she got got a C in a subject she wishes to study at university and there will be many students who will have A's. .

    What are her other subjects? Does she have straight A's in her other A/s subjects or just the ones she is continuing to A level? Did she take politics and maths which are liked by PPE courses? Did she get a string of A* in her GCSE's ? Unfortunately she is applying for a very competitive course where there will be may more students with the requirements than places for the course. That doesn't mean you (or preferably your daughter) shouldn't question the predicted grade and sort it out if their is a mistake but in the end universities might well question an A prediction from a C grade- as a prediction 2 grades higher is always something they will look at
    Thank you for your advice. Her other subjects are Politics, in which she got an A with 95 UMS, and English, also an A with one module at 100 UMS. Her other AS subject was Film Studies in which she got a B, a couple of UMS off an A.

    With the prediction of 2 grades higher, her teachers had said that they would make it clear in her reference as to why they had done that (it's against school policy, which is AS grade = A2 estimate except in very special circumstances). Her English teacher said that she had put in her ref. that she is an A* student even though A* could not be estimated for English as the total mark was not high enough.

    With her GCSEs, she got two A stars, seven As and one C - not stellar, but she had had major surgery six weeks before & missed nine weeks of school in March & April - no consideration was given for this as she would have had to be ill on the day, but her sixth form school (different one) said they would put that in her reference.
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    (Original post by dontargue)
    Thank you for your advice. Her other subjects are Politics, in which she got an A with 95 UMS, and English, also an A with one module at 100 UMS. Her other AS subject was Film Studies in which she got a B, a couple of UMS off an A.

    With the prediction of 2 grades higher, her teachers had said that they would make it clear in her reference as to why they had done that (it's against school policy, which is AS grade = A2 estimate except in very special circumstances). Her English teacher said that she had put in her ref. that she is an A* student even though A* could not be estimated for English as the total mark was not high enough.

    With her GCSEs, she got two A stars, seven As and one C - not stellar, but she had had major surgery six weeks before & missed nine weeks of school in March & April - no consideration was given for this as she would have had to be ill on the day, but her sixth form school (different one) said they would put that in her reference.

    Then all you can do is wait and get the school to rectify the mistake once half term is over.

    I don't know much about PPE but is not having A/s maths a problem? I always kind of assumed it was needed to do Economics Did she get A/A* in her GCSE maths? Does she have the required gcse in a foreign language or what ever else they reequire etc ? I am sure she does but sometimes it is these things that can trip up applications

    Good luck
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    Something very similar happened to me based on incorrect predicted grades, so I understand your frustration. In hindsight however, my school were right in putting what I thought were 'incorrect' grades. I recommend you check out Birmingham and Leeds again, they're probably best suited to her and sometimes these things happen to point us in the right direction!

    You ultimately have to remember that predicted grades are not "target" grades. If you get a C in an AS exam, it signals some academic weaknesses, and resitting doesn't really guarantee anything. It is the best indicator of her performance at A2. A lot of the time there's a specific formula that calculates this, teachers may feel that a student is great in class, but teachers aren't examiners. We also have to factor in the A2 difficulty jump, so the school has been pretty good in allowing you go up one grade. There are always going to be better students than your daughter (there's certainly better students than myself!) and a university like KCL can afford to be super picky. They tend to cite 'predicted grades' as a general term that includes your performance at AS and your subject choice, Film Studies might not have had the same influence as something like English Lit for example. It's a pain, I know!

    It's also worth noting that 2A*S, 7As and 1C at GCSE is great, as well as her AS grades, so your daughter shouldn't feel disappointed in the slightest. I do have to say though that at this stage in your daughter's academic career, she should be able to handle this on her own, otherwise being 100% independent university might be a bit of a shock.

    Have a chat with her tutor or head of sixth form after half term and they will give you the right advice. There's absolutely no rush.
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    (Original post by watchingyouwatch)
    Then all you can do is wait and get the school to rectify the mistake once half term is over.

    I don't know much about PPE but is not having A/s maths a problem? I always kind of assumed it was needed to do Economics Did she get A/A* in her GCSE maths? Does she have the required gcse in a foreign language or what ever else they reequire etc ? I am sure she does but sometimes it is these things that can trip up applications

    Good luck
    No, not having maths AS is not a problem - they only want it if you intend to specialize in the economics part, which she does not. They want an A at Maths GCSE and a GCSE MFL, both of which she has.
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    (Original post by serebro)
    Something very similar happened to me based on incorrect predicted grades, so I understand your frustration. In hindsight however, my school were right in putting what I thought were 'incorrect' grades. I recommend you check out Birmingham and Leeds again, they're probably best suited to her and sometimes these things happen to point us in the right direction!

    You ultimately have to remember that predicted grades are not "target" grades. If you get a C in an AS exam, it signals some academic weaknesses, and resitting doesn't really guarantee anything. It is the best indicator of her performance at A2. A lot of the time there's a specific formula that calculates this, teachers may feel that a student is great in class, but teachers aren't examiners. We also have to factor in the A2 difficulty jump, so the school has been pretty good in allowing you go up one grade. There are always going to be better students than your daughter (there's certainly better students than myself!) and a university like KCL can afford to be super picky. They tend to cite 'predicted grades' as a general term that includes your performance at AS and your subject choice, Film Studies might not have had the same influence as something like English Lit for example. It's a pain, I know!

    It's also worth noting that 2A*S, 7As and 1C at GCSE is great, as well as her AS grades, so your daughter shouldn't feel disappointed in the slightest. I do have to say though that at this stage in your daughter's academic career, she should be able to handle this on her own, otherwise being 100% independent university might be a bit of a shock.

    Have a chat with her tutor or head of sixth form after half term and they will give you the right advice. There's absolutely no rush.
    Interesting points. She does want to handle it herself (& she is doing all the contact with school etc!) all I can do is ask for advice on this forum!

    I would disagree re. the C at AQA AS - many others who were predicted As got Cs or worse in that, nationwide, and only 22% got A or B in her school - against 66% in other subjects. Academic weakness is not suggested in her A grades in Politics and English, and both her Philosophy teachers are examiners - as am I (not in that subject) and I had serious issues with the marking.

    She did take English Lit & is taking it at A2, predicted an A.
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    (Original post by dontargue)
    If, as you suggest, they may have changed their minds and put it in as a B, then I don't think we can let that lie. If she had known that she was predicted a B, she would never, never, never have put KCL, UCL and Bristol as three of her choices - which effectively means that she has been denied three chances - she would have instead applied to Southampton, which she had been dithering over and where the standard offer for someone taking A Level Politics is BBB.
    It is possible that the school put in the predicted grade they said, backed up by the statements promised in the reference to account for the difference, and the uni still decided against. This could have happened (though probably not this early in the cycle) even if her actual AS grade was an A as well as her predicted A Level result.

    Her other two choices are Leeds (standard offer AAB) and Birmingham (standard offer ABB) which in theory should mean that she will get an offer from one or both - she loved both & would be happy to go to either. However, we are very concerned that the B estimate will still look bad, since it's in one of the subjects she wants to do.
    Both highly respectable and rated unis - unless they specify an A in the subject in question and a B prediction really has gone in, she should stand a good of an offer from either or both. And it's by no means game over for the other two unis either.

    For the rest, I can't better the advice nulli tertius has given above
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    Thank you all for your most sage and helpful advice. We wait in hope.
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    (Original post by dontargue)
    Interesting points. She does want to handle it herself (& she is doing all the contact with school etc!) all I can do is ask for advice on this forum!

    I would disagree re. the C at AQA AS - many others who were predicted As got Cs or worse in that, nationwide, and only 22% got A or B in her school - against 66% in other subjects. Academic weakness is not suggested in her A grades in Politics and English, and both her Philosophy teachers are examiners - as am I (not in that subject) and I had serious issues with the marking.

    She did take English Lit & is taking it at A2, predicted an A.
    The fact that people in the school widely missed their predicted grades should be an indicator that the philosophy department aren't the most capable. So the school is probably looking out for the students in the long run by giving them accurate predictions, instead of target grades (which leads to a lot of stress and disappointment come results day). I'd be a little wary over what they say vs what the school in general says.

    Whether KCL will reconsider an application is a subjective issue. Some unis might but others expect the applicant to be fully aware of their statement before it gets sent off. When I applied, my school made me go over everything (including what they added) before I could send my application off.

    As said earlier, it might be a really good idea to move on from this and wait until adjustment. There's always a few spaces up for grabs, even at KCL.
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    (Original post by serebro)
    The fact that people in the school widely missed their predicted grades should be an indicator that the philosophy department aren't the most capable. So the school is probably looking out for the students in the long run by giving them accurate predictions, instead of target grades (which leads to a lot of stress and disappointment come results day). I'd be a little wary over what they say vs what the school in general says.

    Whether KCL will reconsider an application is a subjective issue. Some unis might but others expect the applicant to be fully aware of their statement before it gets sent off. When I applied, my school made me go over everything (including what they added) before I could send my application off.

    As said earlier, it might be a really good idea to move on from this and wait until adjustment. There's always a few spaces up for grabs, even at KCL.
    Re. applicant being fully aware of statement - that's part of the problem, since she was fully aware, or so she thought! Her school is too huge (600 in the year) to take a personal approach, but her PS was checked by her form tutor & she had been assured, in writing, that her prediction for Philosophy would be an A. They do not let students see their refs.
    With the Philosophy, I'm afraid it's largely the exam, AQA, which has been a disaster - see other posts on here re. the results. Centres are ditching this syllabus and flogging the textbooks on Facebook and elsewhere. My daughter was so good at the subject that she had been strongly encouraged to apply to Cambridge to read it, yet she got a C. The Philosophy dept. is actually a good one, comparable with the Politics one & she got 95% in that & is estimated A*.
    Yes, adjustment is a possibility if she gets A*/A / A but she may well just go for Leeds or Birmingham, if she has that option.
 
 
 
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