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    (Original post by H&E)
    In which case, good luck. And get off the site and revise! (Am I saying that to you or to myself? :confused:)
    Definitely meant for you!
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    (Original post by H&E)
    I think for a PhD you'd need to buy a lot more than a kitchen.
    They can have a suite of plasticky dining room chairs and matching tables from B & Q too then
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    (Original post by Mysticmin)
    They can have a suite of plasticky dining room chairs and matching tables from B & Q too then
    I'm sure there is someone you could seduce which would save you the hassle of having to go to B&Q. After all, I would rather lose my self respect and integrity than actually go into a DIY store.
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    (Original post by Leekey)
    I'm sure there is someone you could seduce which would save you the hassle of having to go to B&Q. After all, I would rather lose my self respect and integrity than actually go into a DIY store.
    Speak for yourself. Seeing that the people in charge will probably be old and not very attractive, I'll take a raincheck
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    I thought you might be interested to read this question and answer that was posted on TotalJobs.com - Maybe there is hope for us lot with third class degrees after all? :

    "Dear career doctor,

    I am a 23- year-old, MSc chemistry graduate trying to break into the IT field. I have no relevant work experience, however my main problem is the third class degree I got for my BSc. I feel that this is what is hindering me, as it is normally the first thing an employer sees on my CV.

    I would be grateful if you could give me any advice on overcoming this problem.

    Yours sincerely,

    N "


    Dear N,

    I read your cry for help with interest because I have received a lot of letters recently from people who are convinced that a lower-grade degree will hold them back. Unless an employer has specified which class of degree applicants must have, it really doesn't matter. I think that the problem is more one of not understanding the job seeking process.

    I'm going to look at your situation in the hope that it will also help all those people that share your concern.

    I am going to break your situation down into three components:

    The third class degree
    The MSc
    Lack of relevant work experience

    Which one gives me the most anxiety? Number 3 of course. But this is also the one aspect you can do something about, but first I want to discuss points one and two.

    1) The third class degree. I don' feel that this is important and I checked my suspicions with graduate expert Elaine Essery. Essery is editor of New Graduate Opportunities, a specialist careers publication that is in university libraries and distributed at careers fairs.

    Her advice is simple: 'If you can emphasise your unique selling points that would have a bearing on your job (such as communication skills and teamworking) you will find that it won't matter that you don't have a first class degree,' she says.

    You might also be interested in a comment from Keith Butler, marketing manager at specialist IT recruiters Rullion Computer Personnel.

    People such as Butler spend their lives telling the stretched IT industry to hang on to people by finding the right ones in the first place and offering them the right opportunities to make them stay - helping with staff retention.

    'Retention levels suffer as a result of companies failing to recognise the importance of personality,' says Butler. 'It is far more likely that an individual will stay with a company if their approach, attitude and personality fits into the culture of the company and their immediate project team,' he says.

    So it comes back to basics - research the companies you are interested in and prove to them that you would be the right fit.

    As for point two, the key comment here is that your third doesn't matter anyway because you went on to get an MSc. So someone must have believed in your academic ability to offer you that chance. These are points on which recruiters will pick up.

    And I said before, point three is the most important, especially if you are letting it convey a lack of confidence to employers. Are you applying for the right level of job? Or are you going for positions which ask for plenty of experience. Perhaps it would be best to start your job hunt by applying for positions lower down the ladder.

    Why not go to one of the specialist recruiters and ask which skills you need? As a matter of interest, according to a recent survey by Computer Weekly magazine, the top application skills in demand are C, C++, Java, Unix, Windows NT, Oracle, SQL, Visual Basic and HTML.

    Yet employers are also looking for evidence of business awareness and project management skills. Don't be frightened by this - for a recent graduate, project management need only mean that you can provide evidence of getting any sort of project (holiday job, project work) in on time and within budget.
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    Oh, and I just found this article which some of you might find interesting

    http://ukcareers.hobsons.com/advice_...E_ALTERNATIVES
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    (Original post by Outrageous)
    Thank you all for replying. I truly appreciate the comments.

    Not that I can say they were all that cheerful but I appreciate the brutal honesty.

    So basically if you a degree in say economics NOT from a top notch university and you fail to do well on that degree then you basically have nothing to go on. You will never land the job you really wanted and all your dreams shattered just like that, Hoofbeat and J.S?

    So people with a 3rd are skrewed so to speak?

    I know Investment Banking is in huge demand but still.. or is there no still? End of story. You go nowhere in life?
    Its a hard life mate. I know somebody who got AAA in A-level, he then went to Nottingham University, which is one of the best about. He did Maths and got a THIRD. :eek: Basically, he's up ........ creek
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    It depends on what course you do though, a 2:2 in engineering will be excepted on a graduate training scheme that requires a 2:1 in buisness and the like, there are a lot of factors involved in why, one of them being more people have degrees in buisness than in engineering.

    Also even if you did get a 3rd class honours you'll still be Mr or Mrs Bloggs BSc (hons). the degree is the cake, the honours is merely the icing on top of it, you can get good jobs with 3rds, still an honours degree, just means you'll be unlikely to get onto a graduate training scheme, not impossible though.

    Most companys are after the person more than the letters.
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    (Original post by Vladek)
    It depends on what course you do though, a 2:2 in engineering will be excepted on a graduate training scheme that requires a 2:1 in buisness and the like, there are a lot of factors involved in why, one of them being more people have degrees in buisness than in engineering.

    Also even if you did get a 3rd class honours you'll still be Mr or Mrs Bloggs BSc (hons). the degree is the cake, the honours is merely the icing on top of it, you can get good jobs with 3rds, still an honours degree, just means you'll be unlikely to get onto a graduate training scheme, not impossible though.

    Most companys are after the person more than the letters.
    Can somebody clear something up for me. At my graduation, the programme didn't list anybody as getting a third, do you think this was because everybody in my department got a minimum of a 2:2 or don't thirds go to the ceremony. It just seemed odd that out of 100 plus people NOBODY was listed as a third. I hope the former reason is correct, the later sounds damn right wicked. Do you think top unis give out fewer thirds than ex polytechnics because they don't wanna damage their cred?
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    (Original post by Iloveawaygames)
    Can somebody clear something up for me. At my graduation, the programme didn't list anybody as getting a third, do you think this was because everybody in my department got a minimum of a 2:2 or don't thirds go to the ceremony. It just seemed odd that out of 100 plus people NOBODY was listed as a third. I hope the former reason is correct, the later sounds damn right wicked. Do you think top unis give out fewer thirds than ex polytechnics because they don't wanna damage their cred?
    Sorry folks ignore this, just checked my programme and found somebody with a third.
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    I doubt old unis fudge the results so everyone gets at least 2:2, would degrade people with 2:2's really. Maybe they just didn't want to turn up? embarised they got a 3rd? A mate of mine got a 3rd and he's going so maybe i'm wrong.
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    OK getting back on topic - IB is very tough and competitive. However I think companies do discrimate unfairly.

    Had one friend- she got 3 'c at alevel - went to Westminster Uni got a 1st in Economics- resat her A -levels during uni - got 3 A's applied to GS - didnt even get an interview!!! Said she got the same from all the banks - Im guessingWestminster is a 'crap' uni she wasnte even considered.

    Another mate - got AAB first time , 2.1 from LSE started at GS in Sept.

    So even though both were good academically, looks like the university was the main discriminator. Both had reasonable extra activities etc.
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    (Original post by BigDog04)
    OK getting back on topic - IB is very tough and competitive. However I think companies do discrimate unfairly.

    Had one friend- she got 3 'c at alevel - went to Westminster Uni got a 1st in Economics- resat her A -levels during uni - got 3 A's applied to GS - didnt even get an interview!!! Said she got the same from all the banks - Im guessingWestminster is a 'crap' uni she wasnte even considered.

    Another mate - got AAB first time , 2.1 from LSE started at GS in Sept.

    So even though both were good academically, looks like the university was the main discriminator. Both had reasonable extra activities etc.
    Firstly, most companies look at how you did at A-Level at your first sitting, not after resits, and most require BBB/ABC minimum A-Levels, along with a 2.1. Secondly, with Westminster Uni she's got pretty much no chance at a decent IB, even with a 1st, unless she goes on to do a Master's at a good uni. 90% are recruited from top 20 universities, others from 20-40ish. You may say this is unfair, but a 1st from Wesminster is without a doubt worth less than a 2.1 from York, Warwick, Bristol, UCL, etc.

    For success with IB, you typically need minimum 24 UCAS points (26/28 preferrable), a 2.1 from a top 20 uni (top 10 preferable), and after that everything else on top matters - work experience, what you do outside your studies, etc. Having a 1st isn't going to make you much more employable than someone with a 2.1, as being good at writing academic essays isn't going to help with the nature of IB work. Instead key skills include being able to talk the talk, stamina to do stupid hours if necessary, get on well with people in a team, etc. This is why every year loads with 1sts from Oxbridge, LSE etc get rejected, and people with low 2.1s from Kings College London, Loughborough, etc get offers from the top companies.
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    IB sounds like the most dull and boring job ever!!
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    (Original post by NikNak)
    IB sounds like the most dull and boring job ever!!
    Depends what you're doing. I wouldn't call being in a fast-paced, busy environment on a massive trading floor, responding to unpredictable events, and talking to clients from across the globe "the most dull and boring job ever"... My idea of dull and boring is being on your own, with nobody else to speak to, in a silent office, and doing exactly the same thing 9 to 5, Monday to Friday.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Firstly, most companies look at how you did at A-Level at your first sitting, not after resits, and most require BBB/ABC minimum A-Levels, along with a 2.1. Secondly, with Westminster Uni she's got pretty much no chance at a decent IB, even with a 1st, unless she goes on to do a Master's at a good uni. 90% are recruited from top 20 universities, others from 20-40ish. You may say this is unfair, but a 1st from Wesminster is without a doubt worth less than a 2.1 from York, Warwick, Bristol, UCL, etc.

    For success with IB, you need minimum 24 UCAS points (26/28 preferrable), a 2.1 from a top 20 uni (top 10 preferable), and after that everything else on top matters - work experience, what you do outside your studies, etc. Having a 1st isn't going to make you much more employable than someone with a 2.1, as being good at writing academic essays isn't going to help with the nature of IB work. Instead key skills include being able to talk the talk, stamina to do stupid hours if necessary, get on well with people in a team, etc. This is why every year loads with 1sts from Oxbridge, LSE etc get rejected, and people with low 2.1s from Kings College London, Loughborough, etc get offers from the top companies.
    you need at least 24 points to get the diploma, but it is hardly any good. or that depends on what you want to do but a lot of the programmes at universities demands a higher grade.
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    (Original post by _EMMA_)
    you need at least 24 points to get the diploma, but it is hardly any good. or that depends on what you want to do but a lot of the programmes at universities demands a higher grade.
    By IB in this thread we're referring to Investment Banking, not International Baccalaureate...
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    (Original post by Jools)
    By IB in this thread we're referring to Investment Banking, not International Baccalaureate...
    ops that's what i get when i only read one page
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    LOL @ Emma - I was wondering what you were on about !!

    A Lot of people dont like IB- I dont blame them- however for the right people it is a fantastic job. Simply a case of make sure you know what its about before you go into it.

    Jools you are right with your reply but a)she was ill when she took the A levels first time + doesnt her new grades show her intelligence?

    Why dont IB just specify they only want the top 20 unis - simply then everyone knows where they stand. I dont think people will be that offended- they will just be more realistic with their applications!!
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    (Original post by BigDog04)

    Jools you are right with your reply but a)she was ill when she took the A levels first time + doesnt her new grades show her intelligence?
    Not neccessarily! Assuming her A-levels are in subjects vaguely related to her degree, then if she retakes those alevels during say 1st/2nd year of her degree one would expect with her new and more advanced knowledge learnt from the degree course she'd be able to get a good mark on the a-levels. A-levels are meant to be taken after GCSE's and before a degree because in diffculty, they're supposedly harder than GCSEs and easier than a degree (of course their difficulty is questionable anyway, but thats a different issue).

    Edit: The other thing is if she was severly ill she shouldn't have taken her Alevels originally and waited till Dec/Jan or June again to do em. The fact that she was able to sit down at a desk and pick up the pen and attain C's would indicate that she wasn't perhaps severly ill (obviously I don't know her so I cant say for sure but thats what it seems like...any input on why she did the exams if she was very ill?)
 
 
 
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