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Do the changes to junior doctor contracts put you off? Opinions please! watch

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    So, as I'm sure you have all seen in the news, junior doctors in England are going to get the shaft from Mr Hunt and are looking at longer hours for less pay. This is going to make your future job much harder and patient safety is going to take a massive hit. Tired doctors make awful decisions.

    Does this put you off following a career in medicine? If not, why? And vice versa.
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    I'm concerned about the removal of safeguards which financially penalise hospitals for overworking doctors. This will disincentivise hospitals from sticking to the European Time Working Directive and could ultimately have a dangerous affect on patient safety and the quality of care doctors are able to deliver.

    The wage cut doesn't bother me. I'm not going into medicine for the money, and have no illusions of medicine as a financially lucrative career. As long as I earn enough money to pay off my loans and live comfortably, that is enough. However, I recognise that for many people, a wage cut would hugely affect them, and for that reason (and the removal of safeguards as previously mentioned) I'm supporting industrial action if it comes to it.

    Overall, these developments don't put off being a doctor, but seven day working plans do make me worry for the continuing existence of a NHS which is free at the point of use, especially under Hunt and the current Conservative government.
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    It wouldn't dissuade me from a career in medicine.

    Tbh, I need to examine the plans in more detail. I would be in favour of increased weekend NHS cover in principle. However, it shouldn't come at the expense of a reasonable working schedule for doctors.
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    Have already considered alternative employment options if the new contract is forced upon me in August.
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    I think a lot of people will take a year out as a result at the very least. I suspect getting jobs in normally competitive places this year might be unusually easy. I also suspect that Wales will find its recruitment issues evaporate overnight.

    My main fear is that a minority of doctors will drop out leaving huge strain on those that remain. We already have gaps on our rota which we just have to deal with (plus the nurses are desperately understaffed due to ridiculous immigration laws). If we start to lose even more doctors its going to become a nightmare. Frankly, whilst I don't mind running from sick patient to sick patient all day and having to stay ridiculously late as a result every now and then, I could not do that kind of firefighting for the rest of my life. It wouldn't matter if I were being paid a million pounds at that point: I have a life to live. I would leave.

    (Original post by Etomidate)
    Have already considered alternative employment options if the new contract is forced upon me in August.
    So how green is the grass?
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    (Original post by liam__)
    I'm concerned about the removal of safeguards which financially penalise hospitals for overworking doctors. This will disincentivise hospitals from sticking to the European Time Working Directive and could ultimately have a dangerous affect on patient safety and the quality of care doctors are able to deliver.

    The wage cut doesn't bother me. I'm not going into medicine for the money, and have no illusions of medicine as a financially lucrative career. As long as I earn enough money to pay off my loans and live comfortably, that is enough. However, I recognise that for many people, a wage cut would hugely affect them, and for that reason (and the removal of safeguards as previously mentioned) I'm supporting industrial action if it comes to it.

    Overall, these developments don't put off being a doctor, but seven day working plans do make me worry for the continuing existence of a NHS which is free at the point of use, especially under Hunt and the current Conservative government.
    I'm not at all sure that upcoming graduates will actually pay off their loans, tbh, though I haven't done detailed calculations.

    I'm now in my 7th year post-graduation, and am old enough and lucky enough to have only had to pay ~£1100 pa in fees, with no tuition fee loans, so received maintenance loan only (parents paid my fees, which were means tested, so this was expected). I still owe the SLC about £12000, just under half my loan, after 5.5 years of repayments. I probably won't finish paying it off until I'm a consultant, certainly won't if I go on mat leave/go part time.

    I don't mind paying back my loan, it causes me no financial hardship, but I imagine students coming through now with an additional £36000 of fees loans - more than my entire student debt - on top of maintenance loans, will take a LOT longer to pay it back, and may never reach the full amount depending on career path. This doesn't necessarily matter, as it all gets written off, but it's worth having an appreciation of the sums and timescales involved.

    I am still undecided about what I should do if the contract is pushed through. I am anticipating a small pay drop next year as I know that my next hospital has me on a 1B rota instead of 1A, so additional pay cut will be very much unappreciated!
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    (Original post by Helenia)
    I'm not at all sure that upcoming graduates will actually pay off their loans, tbh, though I haven't done detailed calculations.
    (Original post by liam__)
    As long as I earn enough money to pay off my loans
    You won't according to average income data.
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    It's a cluster**** but I've spent more than half my life wanting to be a doctor. I can't just switch that off. I'm also a bit institutionalised by this point - the idea of working somewhere else and doing something else is truly bizarre to me. I have a student job and during the training for that I honestly kept wondering when they were going to move onto something "relevant" and medical - even though it's not a medical job at all! But to me now, job = medicine, and nothing else will satisfy.

    (No disrespect to those who are planning other careers - I am not suggesting that medicine isn't important enough to you all. Just to make that clear.)

    If (when) the system finally goes fully private, I might consider emigrating, but in all honesty I doubt I would actually do it. I get homesick very easily and the idea of being in NZ far from family and familiar places would really bother me.

    It's emotional blackmail by the government, pure and simple.
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    (Original post by Helenia)
    I'm not at all sure that upcoming graduates will actually pay off their loans, tbh, though I haven't done detailed calculations.
    (Original post by nexttime)
    You won't according to average income data.
    Interesting. I guess this shows how poorly thought out the rise in tuition fees were.

    What I'm torn on is whether to try and pay off the loans as soon as possible to avoid them accruing lots of interest (around £20k, as detailed in the above study), or to just meet the minimum repayments until it is written off altogether. I'm going to have to sit down and do the maths at some point to see which way works out cheaper.
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    (Original post by liam__)
    Interesting. I guess this shows how poorly thought out the rise in tuition fees were.

    What I'm torn on is whether to try and pay off the loans as soon as possible to avoid them accruing lots of interest (around £20k, as detailed in the above study), or to just meet the minimum repayments until it is written off altogether. I'm going to have to sit down and do the maths at some point to see which way works out cheaper.
    The true comparison is whether its cheaper to pay off the student loan or pay off the mortgage you'll hypothetically be incurring within 10 years of graduation. Interest rates are so low at the moment that that's actually not an obvious choice but I suspect in the future the mortgage will win hands down and it'll be best to just let the SLC tick over until 30 years.

    One of the big benefits of graduating two years ago was not just the £3,000 tuition loans, but the fact that the interest rates on the loans were so much cheaper (rise with inflation only). I'll probably be able to pay off 80% of my student loan with the money I've saved from FY1 and FY2 alone... but I'm definitely not going to
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    As a prospective mature student who is already working without a degree it is putting me off slightly.

    Am I being naive by thinking that if I got in to study (a couple of years) and then finished my degree etc., by that time the contracts might have been improved again? :borat:
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    (Original post by RiotGirll)
    As a prospective mature student who is already working without a degree it is putting me off slightly.

    Am I being naive by thinking that if I got in to study (a couple of years) and then finished my degree etc., by that time the contracts might have been improved again? :borat:
    Yes. They don't get renegotiated that frequently, and if the Conservatives stay in power they certainly won't be improving terms. Even if Labour come back, I'm not sure it would be high on their list of priorities.
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    So, since medicine is a prestigious vocation and ultimately well paid this is unlikely to make any difference to applications or what young doctors do.

    It has been interesting in that it has forced this group, an unlikely target for the Tories, to pull together and fight for their rights. With unity they could win. I hope it also makes them sensitive to the needs of other, perhaps less well recognised, groups within NHS
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    (Original post by Zarek)
    So, since medicine is a prestigious vocation and ultimately well paid this is unlikely to make any difference to applications or what young doctors do.
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h-new-contract

    I think you might have underestimated just how angry people are feeling at the moment.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h-new-contract

    I think you might have underestimated just how angry people are feeling at the moment.
    Where would they go?
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h-new-contract

    I think you might have underestimated just how angry people are feeling at the moment.
    It's easy for people to say that in a survey. In practice, I highly highly doubt that 7 in 10 would leave the NHS. Although you are of course correct that people are very angry.
    • Thread Starter
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    Interesting discussion so far. I personally have two close friends that are considering leaving medicine due to the changes.

    It does seem to be the last straw for many people. Myself included. The Gold Coast is looking more golden by the day!
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    (Original post by Zarek)
    Where would they go?
    Did you read the article? Abroad? Into other careers?

    I take Chief Wiggum's point that it might not be exactly 70%, but doctors are highly educated professionals who come from a very strong educational background. They wouldn't exactly be short of options.
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    (Original post by Democracy;[url="tel:60305757")
    60305757[/url]]Did you read the article? Abroad? Into other careers?

    I take Chief Wiggum's point that it might not be exactly 70%, but doctors are highly educated professionals who come from a very strong educational background. They wouldn't exactly be short of options.
    Can't see it, they need to finish their training and doubt 3/4 doctors want to move abroad.
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    (Original post by Zarek)
    Can't see it, they need to finish their training and doubt 3/4 doctors want to move abroad.
    You can finish your training abroad.

    Personally, I'm looking at my options within the financial industry.
 
 
 
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