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Feminist MP scoffs at International Mens' Day watch

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    http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/30/mp-say...point-5471202/

    She says that "everyday is Mens' Day".

    Now I personally do believe that there is much work to do in bringing equality for men and women. But equality cuts both ways.

    There are real issues surrounding mens' lower life expectancy, that they often do the most dangerous jobs in society, and the hugely disproportionate suicide rate where young men kill themselves in astonishing numbers. There are real mens health issues like prostate cancer and depression.

    These deserve to be looked at, and this MP's response suggests to me that perhaps she sees this more as a kind of tribal fight; a matter of which "side" you're on.

    Having an international mens' day and focusing on male issues for that day is absolutely sensible and the right thing to do.
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    I think her comments about an 'International Mens Day' being like a White History Month or Able Bodied Day sums it up. No one's denying that there are issues which affect men more than women but the fact is that most positions of power & authority are still held by men so you can't really compare it to International Womens Day. The difference between feminism and the 'Mens Rights' movement is simple. The first is about campaigning for equality between men & women, the second is about justifying misogyny & whining about any criticism of male privilege. You only have to look at those comments by Fourteen Words & kakos_anthropos to see the sort of people the Mens' Rights cause attracts.
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    (Original post by SignFromDog)
    http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/30/mp-say...point-5471202/

    She says that "everyday is Mens' Day".

    Now I personally do believe that there is much work to do in bringing equality for men and women. But equality cuts both ways.

    There are real issues surrounding mens' lower life expectancy, that they often do the most dangerous jobs in society, and the hugely disproportionate suicide rate where young men kill themselves in astonishing numbers. There are real mens health issues like prostate cancer and depression.

    These deserve to be looked at, and this MP's response suggests to me that perhaps she sees this more as a kind of tribal fight; a matter of which "side" you're on.

    Having an international mens' day and focusing on male issues for that day is absolutely sensible and the right thing to do.
    Men's lower life expectancy is mainly thanks to this thing called biology, there's nothing to be done about it. To be fair we get ****ed over with periods, childbirth and menopause so it evens up really!
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Men's lower life expectancy is mainly thanks to this thing called biology, there's nothing to be done about it. To be fair we get ****ed over with periods, childbirth and menopause so it evens up really!
    That's very hard to measure. It is very arguable that men suffer more from stress as that is one of the few emotions they're 'allowed' to feel, and in fact, get to indulge in, which would have knock on effects.

    Though to me that just adds to the weight of feminist arguments.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    That's very hard to measure. It is very arguable that men suffer more from stress as that is one of the few emotions they're 'allowed' to feel, and in fact, get to indulge in, which would have knock on effects.

    Though to me that just adds to the weight of feminist arguments.
    If that were the case you'd expect to see some cultures where the effect is not there, or is on a different scale. But in every society, at every time for which we have records available, women live about 5% longer. There's next to no variation. That makes a very strong argument that it's biological. (Although I do agree men don't deal with stress as well because of ridiculous gender roles).
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    (Original post by SignFromDog)
    http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/30/mp-say...point-5471202/

    She says that "everyday is Mens' Day".

    Now I personally do believe that there is much work to do in bringing equality for men and women. But equality cuts both ways.

    There are real issues surrounding mens' lower life expectancy, that they often do the most dangerous jobs in society, and the hugely disproportionate suicide rate where young men kill themselves in astonishing numbers. There are real mens health issues like prostate cancer and depression.

    These deserve to be looked at, and this MP's response suggests to me that perhaps she sees this more as a kind of tribal fight; a matter of which "side" you're on.

    Having an international mens' day and focusing on male issues for that day is absolutely sensible and the right thing to do.
    A lot of those issues are feminist issues that will be helped if we take a look at gender roles.

    The life expectancy thing is biology (probably not helped by the deaths at work statistics kicking in), as is prostate cancer - although the treatment of it when compared with breast cancer is a feminist issue: we focus more on breast cancer and it gets more funding but largely in a sexist way e.g. save the boobies - no, save the woman.

    In regards to men's depression and men's suicide rates, I included this in a blog post I wrote not too long ago - this is largely because of this gender role of men as protectors and as strong an unable to talk about their feelings. Removing the (false) dichotomy of men keeping it all bottled up and women letting it all out will help this.

    Similarly, men do the dangerous jobs and die more at work because we see them as tougher and they do the tougher jobs like work on oil rigs while women are secretaries. Now, there are some jobs that are incredibly physically demanding meaning that very few women would be able to build the physical strength to do them (testosterone helps build up muscle) which would tip the balance towards men, but some women would still be able to do them and they shouldn't be put off or told they can't do it because of what is between their legs.

    I think the issue is that the main men's rights issues that people talk about are largely tied to a women's issue on the other side - whatever way men are being disadvantaged by the gender binary women are also - but there are issues women have that are balanced on the other side: expected to take time off for maternity leave (which even leads to discrimination where people would rather not employ women in case they go off, even though that's illegal), they're less likely to be in the higher paid positions within businesses etc., then there's the other international things like women not being allowed to say no to sex with their husbands in some countries, not being allowed to drive or go out without their hair covered, FGM (I am against male circumcision as well, and don't think it should be done on infants outside of medical necessity, but I think we can agree that FGM is very much a pressing issue and it is more severe, even if they're largely two versions of the same thing) and plenty more.

    I'm sorry if that's a bit rambly, hope you can make sense of it.
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    Lower life expectency lmao that's not misandry that's biology
    This month would be a helpful thing, though, in terms of men being recognised as victims of abuse and rape, plus awareness of mental issues because I feel like males get overlooked in that area.
    Prostate cancer? Not so much. Research into that is already an ongoing thing and people are well aware and not judgemental.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    If that were the case you'd expect to see some cultures where the effect is not there, or is on a different scale. But in every society, at every time for which we have records available, women live about 5% longer. There's next to no variation. That makes a very strong argument that it's biological. (Although I do agree men don't deal with stress as well because of ridiculous gender roles).
    There isn't a huge discrepancy in gender roles though in different cultures though is there?
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    It wasn't the most diplomatic response I have ever seenbut seeing a man say to 6 other men (and one lady) that there is no chance to talk about men's issues was laughable.

    I really don't see why issues of equality (sexual or otherwise) need to have a designated day to be discussed in Parliament. If the issue is pressing (which I think male suicide is in particular) then why can't they be discussed as part of the normal procedures of the house?

    I think by designating one day to such matters all that happens is debates are forced onto that particular day, or dropped entirely because there isn't the time.
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    (Original post by Alesha1991)
    I think her comments about an 'International Mens Day' being like a White History Month or Able Bodied Day sums it up. No one's denying that there are issues which affect men more than women but the fact is that most positions of power & authority are still held by men so you can't really compare it to International Womens Day.
    This is a poor argument. What you are saying is that because men continue to dominate in high places, a day dedicated to raising awareness of the issues that face them is not as important or as justified as one for women. The implied premise seems to be that men continue to dominate in high places because society is still skewed in their favour; I completely reject this from the get-go. The only evidence I see for gender discrimination in the work-place is that in favour of women and against men - sexist intiatives like the all-female shortlist in parliament. The idea that our society is against women in this area no longer carries any truth at all and the fact that men continue to dominate in these positions is not evidence that it does.

    However, even if what you are saying was correct (which it isn't), it still wouldn't make sense of your position because the vast majority of men are not part of this elite set at the top and therefore do not get any compensation unique to their sex from this gender imbalance. Both genders have their own struggles and you cannot reasonably dismiss an equal spotlight on men's problems because an infinitesimally small minority of them dominate in investment banking and the cabinet; it's insane, and this misandristic attitude has only meant that while we become obsessed as a nation with banning pop songs and magazines that offend some women on the grounds that other women have chosen to objectify themselves, we are, beyond occasional window-dressing comments, completely ignoring the fact that a man is five times as likely to commit suicide.

    This is one of the central reasons so many men and women dislike contemporary feminism: it masquerades as a movement for gender equality, and in almost the same breath opposes genuine gender equality on the antiquated basis that men don't need any help because they are all under the wing of some vague 'privilege' that they never adequately identify. It is simply a sexist attitude.

    The difference between feminism and the 'Mens Rights' movement is simple. The first is about campaigning for equality between men & women, the second is about justifying misogyny & whining about any criticism of male privilege.
    This is prejudiced nonsense and curiously defensive. Most of the 'criticism of male privilege' comes in the form of challenging and rejecting claims of its existence in the first place. As I have started to demonstrate for you these arguments are often valid; if anything, the reverse is now true. I am not a 'misogynist' because I don't agree with your unexplained and unevidenced claim that men enjoy 'privilege', nor am I 'whining' by protesting against policy-making made from this premise and intending to introduce an artificial and unfair equality of outcome. This is simply a crude attempt to villify and humiliate anyone who disagrees with your point of view.

    I think a great many people would switch your descriptions of each movement around. While I think they are both as unnecessary as the other, I would sooner associate myself with the latter group than the former, which in my experience is far more commonly made up of very angry, close-minded people making the same fallacious arguments, bent on achieving an illiberal and unmeritocratic equality of outcome and, as we see here, effectively rejecting the idea that men's issues should be engaged with on an equal level on the basis that all men are 'privileged' in society, without this supposed privilege ever being properly explained.

    You only have to look at those comments by Fourteen Words & kakos_anthropos to see the sort of people the Mens' Rights cause attracts.
    This is simply ridiculous. You are taking two individuals and using them as evidence that a body of many thousands of people is the same. How many times have you insisted that feminsts are not all obese, man-hating lesbians with more body hair than a silverback gorilla?

    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Men's lower life expectancy is mainly thanks to this thing called biology, there's nothing to be done about it. To be fair we get ****ed over with periods, childbirth and menopause so it evens up really!
    It probably largely is. I don't see this as much of an issue but mortality rates are also influenced by things like a drastically higher suicide rate and working in dangerous professions much more often than women. I don't see the latter as an issue demanding intervention but the former clearly is.
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    (Original post by defenestrated)
    Prostate cancer? Not so much. Research into that is already an ongoing thing and people are well aware and not judgemental.
    Breast cancer receives much more funding. Women's medical issues are estimated to receive about four times more funding than male ones. This is obviously going to play a part in men dying earlier and it is also an area of massive gender inequality which does demand to be balanced out. Just one of the many areas where men enjoy 'privilege' over women.
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    International men's day is a dumb idea. Real men shouldn't want to engage in this victim worshipping culture but instead seek self improvement.

    Men are not meant to be "equal" to women. They are meant to be dominant over women.
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    (Original post by a noble chance)
    Breast cancer receives much more funding. Women's medical issues are estimated to receive about four times more funding than male ones. This is obviously going to play a part in men dying earlier and it is also an area of massive gender inequality which does demand to be balanced out. Just one of the many areas where men enjoy 'privilege' over women.
    Men get breast cancer too...
    Less often, granted, but considerably more than a woman gets prostate cancer.
    Also, how much of that funding is towards pregnancy-related problems? I know it won't make up the whole difference, but it could contribute significantly.
    Here's a stereotype, but, women in general are also more likely to seek medical advice than men
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    A lot of those issues are feminist issues that will be helped if we take a look at gender roles.
    If they are feminist issues, why aren't you supporting Men's Day? Why do feminists say men are privileged if feminism is all about addressing the problems that men are far more likely to commit suicide or become homeless?
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    If that were the case you'd expect to see some cultures where the effect is not there, or is on a different scale. But in every society, at every time for which we have records available, women live about 5% longer. There's next to no variation. That makes a very strong argument that it's biological. (Although I do agree men don't deal with stress as well because of ridiculous gender roles).
    In every society*, at every time for which we have records available, men occupy the top positions of power. That makes a very strong argument that it's biological, and so having women's days etc. is pointless and indeed should be openly mocked.

    Oh wait ...

    *there are a few matriarchal societies, about as many as can be counted on one hand; but there are also some societies where men live as long as women e.g. San Marino, Qatar.


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    Link to the actual video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q

    I think you should watch it before commenting. The article above poorly represents what actually happened and mostly focuses on the comments of a couple of nutters on the internet.
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    (Original post by Alesha1991)
    I think her comments about an 'International Mens Day' being like a White History Month or Able Bodied Day sums it up. No one's denying that there are issues which affect men more than women but the fact is that most positions of power & authority are still held by men so you can't really compare it to International Womens Day. The difference between feminism and the 'Mens Rights' movement is simple. The first is about campaigning for equality between men & women, the second is about justifying misogyny & whining about any criticism of male privilege. You only have to look at those comments by Fourteen Words & kakos_anthropos to see the sort of people the Mens' Rights cause attracts.
    So if they are so in favour of equality for all then why oppose International Mens Day? Surely they would be in favour of raising men's issues so that they can be dealt with. For instance the lack of male domestic abuse shelters.
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    " Every day is Straight Day

    Everyday is White day

    Etc ... "



    Next they'll be saying "Omg why is there a Father's Day, every day is Father's Day".

    ****ing fruit cakes.
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    (Original post by SignFromDog)
    There are real issues surrounding mens' lower life expectancy, that they often do the most dangerous jobs in society, and the hugely disproportionate suicide rate where young men kill themselves in astonishing numbers. There are real mens health issues like prostate cancer and depression.
    Since we are talking international you can add boys being kidnapped and made into child soldiers. Forced genital mutilation and so on. Male rape victims of war.

    Don't see what is wrong about having a day to highlight these issues.
    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    A lot of those issues are feminist issues that will be helped if we take a look at gender roles.
    So why is there an objection to a men's day in principle? There is a woman's day, why not a men's day?
 
 
 
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