Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Is capitalism / socialism 'taught' in schools? watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    As the title really...... and the uni's ??
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    In no way whatsoever. Plebs like me are not supposed to have any knowledge of anything political/economic related. Any political lessons are delivered subversively in a "common sense" kind of way. We are to rely on our betters and and give them our support once every 4 years based on who has the most convincing propaganda they stuff down our throats. That's my own expericne anyway being educated in a state school.

    I did physics at uni and there was again no political teaching, ignoring of course all the "common sense" that you get by osmosis just by existing in society.

    Although if you think teaching children to not be sexist or other such stuff is cultural Marxism then you will probbaly disagree.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    "Education" in this country is largely set up to create workers not thinkers.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    "Education" in this country is largely set up to create workers not thinkers.
    and internet trolls
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    I thought it was in gcse history
    (Well I didn't take gcse history but did come across the syllabus)
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    and internet trolls
    hence why we have so much unemployment
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    School teaches a sort of folk socialism. It's most noticeable in subjects like history, which teaches economic explanations of events that are considered nonsense by actual economists, e.g. overproduction as a cause of the Great Depression.

    This probably reflects the poor education of teachers themselves and of the history profession on economics.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    School teaches a sort of folk socialism. It's most noticeable in subjects like history, which teaches economic explanations of events that are considered nonsense by actual economists, e.g. overproduction as a cause of the Great Depression.

    This probably reflects the poor education of teachers themselves and of the history profession on economics.
    Only memory I have of any thing at all economics related is when an english teacher describing the great depression as people sitting on their money because they are scared of spending it, creating a bad feedback loop. That in itself was neither a left or right wing statement to make. Doesn't matter if it has any bearing in reality or not.

    I don't know why you think lack of economics education will only exist in teachers expressing left wing views.

    Being rigorously educated in a economic theory akin to the Ptolemaic system in astronomy and deriving all kinds of complex and wonderful theories and writing long educated essays from that base still doesn't change how wrong those theories are.

    If we are going to teach economists to children it needs to be part and parcel with how to think and combing the scientific method with the humanities as best we can. Not endorsing one narrow view.

    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    hence why we have so much unemployment
    I hear Putin is hiring.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Only memory I have of any thing at all economics related is when an english teacher describing the great depression as people sitting on their money because they are scared of spending it, creating a bad feedback loop. That in itself was neither a left or right wing statement to make. Doesn't matter if it has any bearing in reality or not.

    I don't know why you think lack of economics education will only exist in teachers expressing left wing views.

    Being rigorously educated in a economic theory akin to the Ptolemaic system in astronomy and deriving all kinds of complex and wonderful theories and writing long educated essays from that base still doesn't change how wrong those theories are.

    If we are going to teach economists to children it needs to be part and parcel with how to think and combing the scientific method with the humanities as best we can. Not endorsing one narrow view.



    I hear Putin is hiring.
    Lots of economic academics are left wing.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Lots of economic academics are left wing.
    We are talking about school teachers.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    We are talking about school teachers.
    Majority have no other choice but to become teachers so i'm guessing they would be left wing
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    We had a brief introduction on the subject when studying the Cold War for GCSE History. It was woefully inaccurate :lol:
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Only memory I have of any thing at all economics related is when an english teacher describing the great depression as people sitting on their money because they are scared of spending it, creating a bad feedback loop. That in itself was neither a left or right wing statement to make. Doesn't matter if it has any bearing in reality or not.

    I don't know why you think lack of economics education will only exist in teachers expressing left wing views.
    That's an Old Keynesian view, part of what I would call folk socialism. Folk socialism is not necessarily the view of any current leading intellectual socialist movement, in fact usually it's not; it's a fuzzy belief that nonetheless tends in the direction of greater state control of the economy. There are people who are not ignorant of economics who think the state should intervene in the economy, but they don't do so for folk socialist reasons. The specific interventions they advocate are also usually quite different, and more precisely limited.

    Being rigorously educated in a economic theory akin to the Ptolemaic system in astronomy and deriving all kinds of complex and wonderful theories and writing long educated essays from that base still doesn't change how wrong those theories are.

    If we are going to teach economists to children it needs to be part and parcel with how to think and combing the scientific method with the humanities as best we can. Not endorsing one narrow view.
    Economics is a separate subject and a social science, not an art criticism free-for-all like most of the humanities. However economics is not part of the core curriculum and often not offer at all below A level, which is probably one of the most significant causes of the problem. Most people, including most teachers not specifically of economics, are simply never exposed to any economics results beyond folk economics they pick up from daily life. If we taught geography in this way we would hear a lot of teachers making statements like "Africa is the largest country in the world.".

    In fact "the great depression [was caused by] people sitting on their money because they are scared of spending it, creating a bad feedback loop" is a pretty close equivalent of "Africa is the largest country in the world", in its respective field.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    That's an Old Keynesian view, part of what I would call folk socialism. Folk socialism is not necessarily the view of any current leading intellectual socialist movement, in fact usually it's not; it's a fuzzy belief that nonetheless tends in the direction of greater state control of the economy. There are people who are not ignorant of economics who think the state should intervene in the economy, but they don't do so for folk socialist reasons. The specific interventions they advocate are also usually quite different, and more precisely limited.


    Economics is a separate subject and a social science, not an art criticism free-for-all like most of the humanities. However economics is not part of the core curriculum and often not offer at all below A level, which is probably one of the most significant causes of the problem. Most people, including most teachers not specifically of economics, are simply never exposed to any economics results beyond folk economics they pick up from daily life. If we taught geography in this way we would hear a lot of teachers making statements like "Africa is the largest country in the world.".

    In fact "the great depression [was caused by] people sitting on their money because they are scared of spending it, creating a bad feedback loop" is a pretty close equivalent of "Africa is the largest country in the world", in its respective field.
    Don't believe you cover capitalism/socialism in A level economics. It's just economics 101 sure you have some references but it's not an in depth look.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Don't believe you cover capitalism/socialism in A level economics. It's just economics 101 sure you have some references but it's not an in depth look.
    I don't know what you mean by "cover capitalism and socialism". I wouldn't expect a scientific course to directly address itself to ideological questions, but the basic principles of economics are relevant to both.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    I don't know what you mean by "cover capitalism and socialism". I wouldn't expect a scientific course to directly address itself to ideological questions, but the basic principles of economics are relevant to both.
    they still won't understand after taking basic economics 101 at A level. They will know how markets work though maybe some international development/trade.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    they still won't understand after taking basic economics 101 at A level. They will know how markets work though maybe some international development/trade.
    Understand what?

    I would expect intelligent students to express skepticism about overproduction and money-hoarding theories of recessions after Economics 101, since both of them would need to break the stabilising feedback mechanism provided by freely set prices in conditions of changing supply and demand. Perhaps you had something else in mind.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    Understand what?

    I would expect intelligent students to express skepticism about overproduction and money-hoarding theories of recessions after Economics 101, since both of them would need to break the stabilising feedback mechanism provided by freely set prices in conditions of changing supply and demand. Perhaps you had something else in mind.
    They don't relate it back to capitalism or socialism in essence. If you want an in depth analysis of capitalism/socialism it takes a LONG time a lot of background reading. There is no set module/exam for capitalism/socialism for A level, even majority universities don't cover it.

    But sure if you think understanding how a marketplace works gives you a background in capitalism. Then yes
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Our economics teacher certainly covered it, although I think it was down to personal passion rather than something on the syllabus. He also accurately predicted the 2007 financial crisis and the mechanisms involved six years before it happened.... which may explain why he ended up as a teacher and not a professional economist.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    In no way whatsoever. Plebs like me are not supposed to have any knowledge of anything political/economic related. Any political lessons are delivered subversively in a "common sense" kind of way. We are to rely on our betters and and give them our support once every 4 years based on who has the most convincing propaganda they stuff down our throats. That's my own expericne anyway being educated in a state school.

    I did physics at uni and there was again no political teaching, ignoring of course all the "common sense" that you get by osmosis just by existing in society.

    Although if you think teaching children to not be sexist or other such stuff is cultural Marxism then you will probbaly disagree.
    You must of just had **** teachers then. Capitalism came up as a subject regularly from about year 9 onwards for me. Socialism did not make an appearance until A Levels but I was somewhat aware of it from my own studies. I say this as a person who also went to state schools.

    I have to ask why you are expecting political teaching in a physics degree? If you can make it to university then you should have enough of intelligence to be able to pick up a book and educate yourself.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources
Uni match

Applying to uni?

Our tool will help you find the perfect course

Articles:

Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

Quick link:

Educational debate unanswered threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.