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EU referendum in TSR, opinion gathering. watch

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  • View Poll Results: What should we do concerning the EU?
    We shouldn't remain a Member of the EU.
    11
    61.11%
    We should remain a member, but negotiate a new deal.
    3
    16.67%
    We should remain a member of the EU.
    3
    16.67%
    We need an ever closer union.
    1
    5.56%

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    Should we remain part of the EU as it is, reform it, or leave altogether? Discuss!
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    I've always been quite loyalist in my viewpoints, so I would vote for stay.
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    (Original post by Ser Alex Toyne)
    I've always been quite loyalist in my viewpoints, so I would vote for stay.
    you just replied in 2 seconds wow o-o
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    (Original post by balanced)
    you just replied in 2 seconds wow o-o
    Well, when you're as awesome as I am, you'll see that these things come naturally.
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    Already a thread here..

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...3#post60291143

    Undecided however renegotiation's are unlikely to address any of my issues.

    I support a European federation.. but probably not with Britain in it. The problem i have is that Farage is both wrong and right.. he's wrong that we should rush out now.. but he's right that in hindsight if this were 1973 i would not have voted to join. Not only did we give up our brethren in the Anglosphere (hell, at one point Brits and Australians were joint citizens) but we will never be part of a European Federation. They are too unwilling on global affairs, too left leaning economically and move at a snails pace. The structure is a half measure entirely due to the vested interests of its architects. Germany wants more power but none of the cost and France craps itself at the thought of a European parliament under effective German control. Despite this though, the governments want ever closer integration but without what is necessary for it to function optimum. The democratic issues are due to the half measures, really you need the parliament to be sovereign and command the commission and council. Right now it's upside down.

    There are plenty of good and bad points to EU membership. I've copied my post from another thread..

    What i will say is that i'm undecided with a default of 'In' and that there are credible advantages and disadvantages to me..

    Advantages..

    More power when we speak as one in the world (granted getting 29 members to agree is difficult).
    Jobs and investment from global business wanting a European base - London regarded as the Financial capital of Europe
    Free movement of labour (at least 300 million of which is from rich countries that we should want it with, some question of whether it's a good idea with eastern Europe)
    ~15% of MEP's give us a relatively large say, if the Tories choose to leave the governing EPP that's their fault
    Carrot of EU membership has given countries an incentive to adopt western values and open market economies
    Prevents Russian expansion (Crimea and a small eastern region may go to Russia but the west has won the bulk of Ukraine)
    Protects workers rights (even i as a Tory don't entirely trust some of the talk about abolition of regulation, some of it screams of business over employee)

    Disadvantages..

    Common agricultural policy - The EU is a subsidy junky
    Net contribution
    Common Fisheries Policy - Our fish stocks in recent decades have been decimated and some countries don't even have coasts
    EU is beaurocratic and slow full of vested interests
    The EU has expanded into poor countries too quickly (granted it's hard to prevent Russian influence expanding if you don't).
    The EU is broadly too pacifist
    The EU becoming ever more federal will likely force us to eventually go all in or all out.

    Effects of coming out..

    Probable fiscal benefits due to abolition of subsidies and part of our contribution back
    Probably able to go out and get trade treaties quicker
    Potential for good regulation to be abolished by domestic governments
    Potential for immigration to be aggressively reduced (bad if you ask me)
    Lower jobs and investment as regulation diverges from business wanting a European base (more a case of lost future investment than business fleeing but potentially more freedom for British business wanting to export globally)
    Potential for closer relationships with our brethren in the Anglosphere

    ..

    I certainly think the EU should exist regardless of whether we are part of it.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Already a thread here..

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...3#post60291143

    Undecided however renegotiation's are unlikely to address any of my issues.

    I support a European federation.. but probably not with Britain in it. The problem i have is that Farage is both wrong and right.. he's wrong that we should rush out now.. but he's right that in hindsight if this were 1973 i would not have voted to join. Not only did we give up our brethren in the Anglosphere (hell, at one point Brits and Australians were joint citizens) but we will never be part of a European Federation. They are too unwilling on global affairs, too left leaning economically and move at a snails pace. The structure is a half measure entirely due to the vested interests of its architects. Germany wants more power but none of the cost and France craps itself at the thought of a European parliament under effective German control. Despite this though, the governments want ever closer integration but without what is necessary for it to function optimum. The democratic issues are due to the half measures, really you need the parliament to be sovereign and command the commission and council. Right now it's upside down.

    There are plenty of good and bad points to EU membership. I've copied my post from another thread..

    What i will say is that i'm undecided with a default of 'In' and that there are credible advantages and disadvantages to me..

    Advantages..

    More power when we speak as one in the world (granted getting 29 members to agree is difficult).
    Jobs and investment from global business wanting a European base - London regarded as the Financial capital of Europe
    Free movement of labour (at least 300 million of which is from rich countries that we should want it with, some question of whether it's a good idea with eastern Europe)
    ~15% of MEP's give us a relatively large say, if the Tories choose to leave the governing EPP that's their fault
    Carrot of EU membership has given countries an incentive to adopt western values and open market economies
    Prevents Russian expansion (Crimea and a small eastern region may go to Russia but the west has won the bulk of Ukraine)
    Protects workers rights (even i as a Tory don't entirely trust some of the talk about abolition of regulation, some of it screams of business over employee)

    Disadvantages..

    Common agricultural policy - The EU is a subsidy junky
    Net contribution
    Common Fisheries Policy - Our fish stocks in recent decades have been decimated and some countries don't even have coasts
    EU is beaurocratic and slow full of vested interests
    The EU has expanded into poor countries too quickly (granted it's hard to prevent Russian influence expanding if you don't).
    The EU is broadly too pacifist
    The EU becoming ever more federal will likely force us to eventually go all in or all out.

    Effects of coming out..

    Probable fiscal benefits due to abolition of subsidies and part of our contribution back
    Probably able to go out and get trade treaties quicker
    Potential for good regulation to be abolished by domestic governments
    Potential for immigration to be aggressively reduced (bad if you ask me)
    Lower jobs and investment as regulation diverges from business wanting a European base (more a case of lost future investment than business fleeing but potentially more freedom for British business wanting to export globally)
    Potential for closer relationships with our brethren in the Anglosphere

    ..

    I certainly think the EU should exist regardless of whether we are part of it.
    Not so sure about your advantages

    - Why do we have more power speaking as 1/28th of a makeshift country?
    - Why would people stop investing and using London as a Financial base, really it would have to be out of spite because the harm would be mutual
    - Free movement of labour is a complete disaster as we see with the current oxymoron - member-states need to 'pull their weight' yet we still have free movement! And even in 'fair weather' free movement leads to a brain drain of source countries and wage compression in sink countries. We need free *trade* not free movement!
    - Our MEPs give us diddly squat, keep in mind we have a UKIP parliament whose raison d'etre is getting us out, and at the very least reforming while we are still in. At the end of the day that has achieved virtually nothing.
    - How has it caused western values to be adopted? If anything it has contributed to destabilization in Ukraine (yes Russia is more to blame, but lets not pretend the Eu helped matters), the EU sure stopped crimea...
    - At the cost of punitive micromanagment of employers; it simply isn't worth it.
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    There already was an EU referendum just earlier.
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    I want a referendum on whether to have a referendum.
 
 
 
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