Wealth inequality

Poll

What is a larger problem

Immigration is discussed a lot in the media and on here. However, is it a larger problem than wealth inequality?

Vote using whatever criteria you like-for which issue you think is more harmful to society, which issue you would like to see addressed if only one could be, etc.

To try and balance it out, since immigration has been discussed a lot on this forum here are a few links about;

Wealth inequality;
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/britains-richest-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

Income inequality;
https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk

Reply 1

Rakas21

21

Original post by i<3milkshake

Immigration is discussed a lot in the media and on here. However, is it a larger problem than wealth inequality?

Vote using whatever criteria you like-for which issue you think is more harmful to society, which issue you would like to see addressed if only one could be, etc.

To try and balance it out, since immigration has been discussed a lot on this forum here are a few links about;

Wealth inequality;
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/britains-richest-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

Income inequality;
https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk

Both are overdone in the UK.

Inequality - Relative inequality to me is largely meaningless in that Bill Gates becoming poorer won't make a difference to myself as a peasant. What really matters is the absolute pay increases of the poor and pay/asset increases of the middle class. This is an issue at the moment (pay growth is barely 3%) however if i were to get a 5% pay rise then it would be largely immaterial to me that my manager got a 15% pay rise despite rising inequality. Equality of opportunity matters much more.

Immigration - Frankly i hear far too much about EU migration when the real issues for me are non-EU ethno-cultural issues. We import 80,000 people who are family members and we also continue to import Muslims, Africans and asylum seekers while limiting the number of Australians. The numbers are not really a concern to me (infrastructure can be built), the quality and type is.

Reply 2

i<3milkshake

OP

4

Original post by Rakas21

Both are overdone in the UK.

Inequality - Relative inequality to me is largely meaningless in that Bill Gates becoming poorer won't make a difference to myself as a peasant. What really matters is the absolute pay increases of the poor and pay/asset increases of the middle class. This is an issue at the moment (pay growth is barely 3%) however if i were to get a 5% pay rise then it would be largely immaterial to me that my manager got a 15% pay rise despite rising inequality. Equality of opportunity matters much more.

Immigration - Frankly i hear far too much about EU migration when the real issues for me are non-EU ethno-cultural issues. We import 80,000 people who are family members and we also continue to import Muslims, Africans and asylum seekers while limiting the number of Australians. The numbers are not really a concern to me (infrastructure can be built), the quality and type is.

Good points. For me wealth inequality is a problem as when looking the deficit why do the Tories go for tax credits but actually lower inheritance tax? Such measures only increase the gap. Fair enough if the poor get richer and the rich get much richer, but at the moment with austerity, cuts to vital public services, mass immigration etc etc the people who are least in a position to pay more are being asked to lose money and those with plenty to lose are getting tax cuts.

As for immigration-I agree about the quality. 100 people who fit in will not be noticed, 10 who don't will be. The strain on services is a problem for me-it is possible to build infrastructure and housing but the government simply will not and they also compete for jobs, either putting people out of work or lowering wages.

Reply 3

pol pot noodles

19

Original post by i<3milkshake

Good points. For me wealth inequality is a problem as when looking the deficit why do the Tories go for tax credits but actually lower inheritance tax? Such measures only increase the gap. Fair enough if the poor get richer and the rich get much richer, but at the moment with austerity, cuts to vital public services, mass immigration etc etc the people who are least in a position to pay more are being asked to lose money and those with plenty to lose are getting tax cuts.

As for immigration-I agree about the quality. 100 people who fit in will not be noticed, 10 who don't will be. The strain on services is a problem for me-it is possible to build infrastructure and housing but the government simply will not and they also compete for jobs, either putting people out of work or lowering wages.

Tax credits are a subsidy for businesses and ultimately when you pay people to be poor they'll remain poor. Even John McDonnell condemned them back in 2013. Getting rid of them will be hugely beneficial in the long term.

Reply 4

QuantumOverlord

16

Original post by i<3milkshake

Good points. For me wealth inequality is a problem as when looking the deficit why do the Tories go for tax credits but actually lower inheritance tax? Such measures only increase the gap. Fair enough if the poor get richer and the rich get much richer, but at the moment with austerity, cuts to vital public services, mass immigration etc etc the people who are least in a position to pay more are being asked to lose money and those with plenty to lose are getting tax cuts.

As for immigration-I agree about the quality. 100 people who fit in will not be noticed, 10 who don't will be. The strain on services is a problem for me-it is possible to build infrastructure and housing but the government simply will not and they also compete for jobs, either putting people out of work or lowering wages.

To me wealth inequality is immaterial as the poster above enunciated, but absolute wealth among the bottom decile is integral. With regards to tax credits I grudgingly oppose the Tories policy to reform it. Grudgingly because I do not like the current system, mostly because it is overly complicated; however affirmatively because the proposed system is worse and is tantamount to a high income tax among the poorest which decentivizes work, the absolute last thing we want to be doing. Personally I want to curb the over-reliance on the welfare state by pragmatic incentivisation, however I honestly cannot think of a more effective means than currently stands. As for austerity, that's the best of a bad situation which you can blame the Labor government, for in part, causing.

Immigration, to me, is a more pressing issue with the crisis in Europe that is ongoing; if we are not sensible about this naivety and political correctness could lead to social and economic problems that are not easily remedied. I am keen for sensible border control and vetting of all migrants and refugees; obviously I think we should take refugees, but not in the way we are currently doing which is illegally by proximally contracting out human traffickers.

Reply 5

i<3milkshake

OP

4

Original post by pol pot noodles

Tax credits are a subsidy for businesses and ultimately when you pay people to be poor they'll remain poor. Even John McDonnell condemned them back in 2013. Getting rid of them will be hugely beneficial in the long term.

Agreed-but if you are going to getrid of them make housing affordable and boost the minimum wage before you do it. Otherise you are just making poor people poorer.