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the crucifixion of jesus watch

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    I am not christian, but have no real problem with most of the ideas and principles laid out in the bible, except this big one! I dont understand how God sacrificing his son is supposed to save me, or make me feel better, or encourage me to follow the same beliefs.. how could he let his son be murdered in such an awful way? surely this goes against other ideas laid out by christianity?

    any thoughts would be great! ill be very interested to see what you all think about this one..
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    I am not christian, but have no real problem with most of the ideas and principles laid out in the bible, except this big one! I dont understand how God sacrificing his son is supposed to save me, or make me feel better, or encourage me to follow the same beliefs.. how could he let his son be murdered in such an awful way? surely this goes against other ideas laid out by christianity?

    any thoughts would be great! ill be very interested to see what you all think about this one..
    Interesting topic I think the idea is the people of jesus's time were very sinfull. So instead of everyone going to hell. Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of mankind and died for their sins. Taking their sins away as he died. It is now believed that if you accept jesus in your life (become a christian) you will go to heaven because jesus also died for your sins.

    I am not sure but I think that is right.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Interesting topic I think the idea is the people of jesus's time were very sinfull. So instead of everyone going to hell. Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of mankind and died for their sins. Taking their sins away as he died. It is now believed that if you accept jesus in your life (become a christian) you will go to heaven because jesus also died for your sins.

    I am not sure but I think that is right.
    That's how it's always been explained to me - he suffered the pain everyone else deserved. Hence "Jesus died for our sins".
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    I am not christian, but have no real problem with most of the ideas and principles laid out in the bible, except this big one! I dont understand how God sacrificing his son is supposed to save me, or make me feel better, or encourage me to follow the same beliefs
    The story of the Jesus rising from the dead to save mankind was made up by his disciples. Jesus was supposed to be the messiah yet he was unable to defend himself or his followers, so they had to think of an elaborate argument in order to reconcile his supposed divinity with his humiliating torture and death.

    The same thing has happened several times to the followers of radical rabbis, and it is just as humiliating every time.
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    I am not christian, but have no real problem with most of the ideas and principles laid out in the bible, except this big one! I dont understand how God sacrificing his son is supposed to save me, or make me feel better, or encourage me to follow the same beliefs.. how could he let his son be murdered in such an awful way? surely this goes against other ideas laid out by christianity?

    any thoughts would be great! ill be very interested to see what you all think about this one..
    Since jesus was pure and sinless, he was the perfect atonement sacrifice which would replace all of the food and animal sacrifices that the jews practiced before.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    Since jesus was pure and sinless, he was the perfect atonement sacrifice which would replace all of the food and animal sacrifices that the jews practiced before.
    This is what I love about Christianity, it's just so darn easy. The best bit, in my view, is that you can be however bad you want, as long as you repent on your deathbed. You have to be sincere, of course, but it's not exactly hard to genuinely regret to sins when this means a ticket to an eternity in heaven rather than in hell.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Interesting topic I think the idea is the people of jesus's time were very sinfull. So instead of everyone going to hell. Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of mankind and died for their sins. Taking their sins away as he died. It is now believed that if you accept jesus in your life (become a christian) you will go to heaven because jesus also died for your sins.

    I am not sure but I think that is right.
    Okay, so God sacrificed Jesus, because he didn't want us to pay for our own sins. Yet, it's Him who created hell and the very concept of "sin" and the fact that you have to be punished for your sins.
    So, if he wants to save mankind, why not abolish hell instead of killing his own divine son??
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Interesting topic I think the idea is the people of jesus's time were very sinfull. So instead of everyone going to hell. Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of mankind and died for their sins. Taking their sins away as he died. It is now believed that if you accept jesus in your life (become a christian) you will go to heaven because jesus also died for your sins.

    I am not sure but I think that is right.

    Mainly accurate, but it wasn't just for the people in Jesus' own time, but for everyone.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    This is what I love about Christianity, it's just so darn easy. The best bit, in my view, is that you can be however bad you want, as long as you repent on your deathbed. You have to be sincere, of course, but it's not exactly hard to genuinely regret to sins when this means a ticket to an eternity in heaven rather than in hell.

    I don't think regretting them to save your own skin counts :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Okay, so God sacrificed Jesus, because he didn't want us to pay for our own sins. Yet, it's Him who created hell and the very concept of "sin" and the fact that you have to be punished for your sins.
    So, if he wants to save mankind, why not abolish hell instead of killing his own divine son??

    Well, as far as I know, God doesn't have this power (and I know he's supposed to be omniscient) - if good exists then so much evil. God, and his prophets etc. are constantly in battle with evil in the OT, and do not appear to have overriding power over it.
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    I am not christian, but have no real problem with most of the ideas and principles laid out in the bible, except this big one! I dont understand how God sacrificing his son is supposed to save me, or make me feel better, or encourage me to follow the same beliefs.. how could he let his son be murdered in such an awful way? surely this goes against other ideas laid out by christianity?

    any thoughts would be great! ill be very interested to see what you all think about this one..
    Jesus, the prophet, was never crucified, it was CRUCI-FICTION.

    Let us read from the bible itself:

    Hebrews 5

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission


    After reading Hebrews 5:7 we can easily conclude 3 things:

    1- Jesus is not God since he was offering prayers and petitions to the one who could save him from death, Jesus could not save himself from death which means he is not God.

    2- Jesus did NOT want to die, otherwise why he would offer prayers and petitions to be saved from Death ?

    3- We can see that his prayers and petitions were HEARD which means he was saved and rescued from death and was never crucified !

    This confirms what Allah almighty told Muslims in the Noble Quran:

    "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them. (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"

    For more information about this, please visit my special forum:

    http://forum.jamaat.net
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    (Original post by H&E)
    This is what I love about Christianity, it's just so darn easy. The best bit, in my view, is that you can be however bad you want, as long as you repent on your deathbed. You have to be sincere, of course, but it's not exactly hard to genuinely regret to sins when this means a ticket to an eternity in heaven rather than in hell.
    Depending on which sect you adhere to that is.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    This is what I <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=love&v=55">love</a> about Christianity, it's just so darn easy. The best bit, in my view, is that you can be however bad you want, as long as you repent on your deathbed. You have to be sincere, of course, but it's not exactly hard to genuinely regret to sins when this means a ticket to an eternity in heaven rather than in hell.

    Well what is supposed to happen is that when you die, you lay in sleep until judgment day where God will seperate the goats from the sheep (supposedly) He looks within your soul and that's how he can tell if you were a good person or not.... (i think)
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    (Original post by Cellardore)
    Well what is supposed to happen is that when you die, you lay in sleep until judgment day where God will seperate the goats from the sheep (supposedly) He looks within your soul and that's how he can tell if you were a good person or not.... (i think)
    There are varying theories on what happens after death within Christianity.
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    (Original post by Cellardore)
    Well what is supposed to happen is that when you die, you lay in sleep until judgment day where God will seperate the goats from the sheep (supposedly) He looks within your soul and that's how he can tell if you were a good person or not.... (i think)

    but even if youre a really good person..very giving etc etc that doenst stop you going to hell, since doenst it all hang on whether you believe in god or not? which i think is a bit like blackmail.."believe in me otherwise youll be damned forever regardless"
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Okay, so God sacrificed Jesus, because he didn't want us to pay for our own sins. Yet, it's Him who created hell and the very concept of "sin" and the fact that you have to be punished for your sins.
    So, if he wants to save mankind, why not abolish hell instead of killing his own divine son??
    Didn't say it was true and I didn't say that I have all the answers all I did was answer the question.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    Since jesus was pure and sinless, he was the perfect atonement sacrifice which would replace all of the food and animal sacrifices that the jews practiced before.
    so just because he was pure and sinless...means its ok to sacrifice the poor guy?
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    so just because he was pure and sinless...means its ok to sacrifice the poor guy?
    I think the idea is that he chose to suffer, out of kindness to the rest of mankind.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    I think the idea is that he chose to suffer, out of kindness to the rest of mankind.
    [NIV Bibleebrews 5:7-10] During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

    It doesn't look like he chose to suffer, more like accepted it along the way. :confused:
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Okay, so God sacrificed Jesus, because he didn't want us to pay for our own sins. Yet, it's Him who created hell and the very concept of "sin" and the fact that you have to be punished for your sins.
    So, if he wants to save mankind, why not abolish hell instead of killing his own divine son??
    Why not just abolish prisons as well? If we just got rid of the law there would be no more criminals! Inspired! We'll just say its cool for people to lie, cheat, steal, kill, rape and all that other stuff.

    I think not...............
 
 
 
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