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    (Original post by Green_World)
    Jesus, the prophet, was never crucified, it was CRUCI-FICTION.

    Let us read from the bible itself:

    Hebrews 5

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission


    After reading Hebrews 5:7 we can easily conclude 3 things:

    1- Jesus is not God since he was offering prayers and petitions to the one who could save him from death, Jesus could not save himself from death which means he is not God.

    2- Jesus did NOT want to die, otherwise why he would offer prayers and petitions to be saved from Death ?

    3- We can see that his prayers and petitions were HEARD which means he was saved and rescued from death and was never crucified !
    I'm no expert but I think it's fairly certain to anybody that Jesus did exist and was crucified.

    I don't quite follow your reasoning. 1- He never claimed to be God. 2- Yes, he didn't want to die, neither do most people. What's your point? 3- Um, no. The word "heard" does not say "so he ran away and lived happily ever after" to me, it just says that somebody payed attention.
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    He never wanted to die, he was human like everyone else.

    What i think is awful is when christian's babies died, before being baptized. The Priest used to say that they have gone to "limbo" becuase they were never baptized so can't make it to heaven. I think that's a teerible thing to say to someone who has just lost their child. They don't do that anymore now though....
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    (Original post by Cellardore)
    He never wanted to die, he was human like everyone else.

    What i think is awful is when christian's babies died, before being baptized. The Priest used to say that they have gone to "limbo" becuase they were never baptized so can't make it to heaven. I think that's a teerible thing to say to someone who has just lost their child. They don't do that anymore now though....
    I think it was very unpopular and was loosing the church followers so this idea was convieniantly forgotten.
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    (Original post by Cellardore)
    He never wanted to die, he was human like everyone else.

    What i think is awful is when christian's babies died, before being baptized. The Priest used to say that they have gone to "limbo" becuase they were never baptized so can't make it to heaven. I think that's a teerible thing to say to someone who has just lost their child. They don't do that anymore now though....
    This statement on limbo was never a doctrine of the Catholic church.
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Okay, so God sacrificed Jesus, because he didn't want us to pay for our own sins. Yet, it's Him who created hell and the very concept of "sin" and the fact that you have to be punished for your sins.
    So, if he wants to save mankind, why not abolish hell instead of killing his own divine son??
    The concept of Hell came into being because of the works of Lucifer. Therefore it was a creation of the evil one without whom it would not have been needed.

    God the Father did not kill God the Son, rather it was because of the Sanhedrin and the Romans.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    This statement on limbo was never a doctrine of the Catholic church.
    It may not of been but I have met many adults who remember it being commonly told to people when they were younger. These people came from many different areas of the UK. So obviously the church were telling people this.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    It may not of been but I have met many adults who remember it being commonly told to people when they were younger. These people came from many different areas of the UK. So obviously the church were telling people this.
    I think it was just an idea being bandied around by some parishes rather than 'The Church'.

    It was a name put to a concept that we didn't or don't know anything about. The name could have been Nirvana or Eutopia or even Little Heaven. It fitted in with the attitudes of people in those times - remember the adage "Spare the rod and spoil the child"? Times were tough then for kids who had to be seen but not heard. Now we live in more enlightened times where children deserve to be nurtured, loved and praised when they do well.

    We can criticise many attitudes that were held formerly as we live in different times - no more kids going up chimney or down mines, or fighting wars (as 14 year olds did in the First World War.) I guess that in 50/100 years time the next generation will be criticising the attitudes and practices of us lot now!
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    A little off topic I know but forgive me...

    Im interested to know who of you has read Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, now I dont have it on me at this very second, but there is an interesting chapter on the actual Crucifixion of Jesus... now im not saying it true or not so dont have a go at me... but yeah, has anyone read it, it puts foward some interesting points which may answer your question.
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    (Original post by Green_World)
    Jesus, the prophet, was never crucified, it was CRUCI-FICTION.

    Let us read from the bible itself:

    Hebrews 5

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission


    After reading Hebrews 5:7 we can easily conclude 3 things:

    1- Jesus is not God since he was offering prayers and petitions to the one who could save him from death, Jesus could not save himself from death which means he is not God.

    2- Jesus did NOT want to die, otherwise why he would offer prayers and petitions to be saved from Death ?

    3- We can see that his prayers and petitions were HEARD which means he was saved and rescued from death and was never crucified !

    This confirms what Allah almighty told Muslims in the Noble Quran:

    "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them. (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"

    For more information about this, please visit my special forum:

    http://forum.jamaat.net
    No he didn't die, even though countless people had seen him and even Mary testified.
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    (Original post by Uncledougsie)
    Why not just abolish prisons as well? If we just got rid of the law there would be no more criminals! Inspired! We'll just say its cool for people to lie, cheat, steal, kill, rape and all that other stuff.

    I think not...............

    but fear of going to hell shouldnt be the reason for people to be good.. maybe im being naive, but surely empathy and goodness should be at the forefront of everyone's minds without needing fear of punishment to motivate us? i know when i do a good deed.. i dont think of it as getting one step closer to going to heaven..
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    (Original post by Cellardore)
    He never wanted to die, he was human like everyone else.

    What i think is awful is when christian's babies died, before being baptized. The Priest used to say that they have gone to "limbo" becuase they were never baptized so can't make it to heaven. I think that's a teerible thing to say to someone who has just lost their child. They don't do that anymore now though....
    I think Limbo is just another name for purgatory, the place where everyone goes to for a time where they lose their sins through suffering before going on to heaven, This is a distinctly catholic idea, which was a money making scheme to get people to buy pardons and pay for preists to pray for people in purgatory.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    I think Limbo is just another name for purgatory, the place where everyone goes to for a time where they lose their sins through suffering before going on to heaven, This is a distinctly catholic idea, which was a money making scheme to get people to buy pardons and pay for preists to pray for people in purgatory.
    nope Cellardoor is right on the money there, there are like three purgatories arent there...
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    (Original post by Everdawn)
    nope Cellardoor is right on the money there, there are like three purgatories arent there...
    hmmmm, I wasn't aware of that, you learn something new every day.

    Another oddity of catholic is transubstanciation, don't you think.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    hmmmm, I wasn't aware of that, you learn something new every day.

    Another oddity of catholic is transubstanciation, don't you think.

    What does that mean to you?
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    What does that mean to you?
    Well, the wine and the wafer is turned into the actual blood and flesh of christ.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    Well, the wine and the wafer is turned into the actual blood and flesh of christ.

    Not "actual" really - obviously it's not a big chunk of human flesh.
    They believe that the "internal character" of the bread changes, so you really are taking in the body of Christ - it is an actual change, not merely symbolic, but at the same time it can't be called the actual blood and body.
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    (Original post by hitchhiker_13)
    Not "actual" really - obviously it's not a big chunk of human flesh.
    They believe that the "internal character" of the bread changes, so you really are taking in the body of Christ - it is an actual change, not merely symbolic, but at the same time it can't be called the actual blood and body.
    but it was clear at the last supper that jesus was using the bread and wine as symbols rather than the actual flesh and blood of christ.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    but it was clear at the last supper that jesus was using the bread and wine as symbols rather than the actual flesh and blood of christ.

    Well Catholics beg to differ. He said, "This is my body", and they chose to interpret it literally. I don't see that it makes any realy difference in terms of the Christian faith - whether it does experience this change or it is only symbolic, the sentiment is the same.
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    It's totally illogical and physically sickening!
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    (Original post by hitchhiker_13)
    Well Catholics beg to differ. He said, "This is my body", and they chose to interpret it literally. I don't see that it makes any realy difference in terms of the Christian faith - whether it does experience this change or it is only symbolic, the sentiment is the same.
    that is true, but catholics make quite a few changes that alter the religion, such as saying priests can actually forgive sins and the worship of mary.

    But if you want really warped sects, try the mormans
 
 
 
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