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Turkey Condemns Russia for Fighting Islam in Syria, Calls on West to Accept ISIS watch

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    Could the world be any more screwed up?
    I mean, we have the Islamist President of Turkey winning his corrupt sham of an election by an unpredicted landslide.
    We have Turkey bombing Kurds and raiding Kurdish villages instead of fighting ISIS.
    We have Obama getting pally and doing deals with Erdogan.
    Instead of arming the Kurdish YPG and YPJ who are on the frontline against ISIS and in dire need of better arms and logistical support, the US funding is going everywhere but them and instead going to ISIS, Al Nusra, and the so called Islamist ‘Free Syrian Army’.
    Erdogan is pro ISIS and so is Obama actually because he is prepared to back Islamists as long as they are against Assad. Both Erdogan and Obama obviously are dodgy as hell.
    Meanwhile we have the amazing YPG and YPJ (it has to be said, those women are incredibly likeable, brave, and there seems such a genuine friendship, mutual respect and camaraderie among them). These Kurdish fighters with ISIS at their front and Turkey at their back, are the real heroes but they are not getting any support from Europe, Britain or the US? Utterly shameful!
    It’s all so upside down, so amoral.
    Aside from all the tawdry political self interest of the big players, I think something quite remarkable is happening in the ranks of the YPJ and I am surprised really, that many more young women with spirit and conscience aren’t flocking in droves to join their ranks and be part of something awesome and noble. It's about freedom, emancipation, friendship and unity for the common good. What great company to be in. So rare to find in todays topsy turvy world.
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/...o-accept-isis/
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    Obama quite clearly isn't pro-ISIS/ Islamist.

    I wouldn't call the YPG/ YPJ amazing either. In terms of effectiveness or in terms of conformity to the Geneva conventions. They also have committed war crimes.

    That isn't to say I don't support the Kurds, or am some sort of ISIS shill. It's an observation, and lets keep some perspective to things - it's a war, crimes will be committed by all sides.

    Young woman probably aren't flocking to join because 1) they are poorly equipped 2) they aren't very effective 3) they keep dying 4) they have young families to look after.

    Britain should keep out of the conflict completely.
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    Your 'amazing' YPG have been accused of 'ethnic cleansing' by Amnesty International among other atrocities. :laugh:
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    Turkey is more interested in crushing the Kurds than fighting ISIS, what do you expect?

    As for the supposed ethnic cleansing by the YPG (a charge the Society for Threatened Peoples has refuted, for the record), don't you think that sounds a bit bizarre considering that Rojava's armed forces includes militias of just about every ethnic group in the region? Christians, Muslims and Druze, Assyrians, Armenians, Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen and Yazidis (who the YPG/YPJ/PKK rescued from genocide at the hands of ISIS), you name it. And a system of guaranteed political representation for all communities, at a decentralised level?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Turkey is more interested in crushing the Kurds than fighting ISIS, what do you expect?

    As for the supposed ethnic cleansing by the YPG (a charge the Society for Threatened Peoples has refuted, for the record), don't you think that sounds a bit bizarre considering that Rojava's armed forces includes militias of just about every ethnic group in the region? Christians, Muslims and Druze, Assyrians, Armenians, Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen and Yazidis (who the YPG/YPJ/PKK rescued from genocide at the hands of ISIS), you name it. And a system of guaranteed political representation for all communities, at a decentralised level?
    Kurds! :woo:
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Obama quite clearly isn't pro-ISIS/ Islamist.

    I wouldn't call the YPG/ YPJ amazing either. In terms of effectiveness or in terms of conformity to the Geneva conventions. They also have committed war crimes.

    That isn't to say I don't support the Kurds, or am some sort of ISIS shill. It's an observation, and lets keep some perspective to things - it's a war, crimes will be committed by all sides.

    Young woman probably aren't flocking to join because 1) they are poorly equipped 2) they aren't very effective 3) they keep dying 4) they have young families to look after.

    Britain should keep out of the conflict completely.
    Uh. I agreed with you. (except maybe the last bit)

    I feel ill.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Uh. I agreed with you. (except maybe the last bit)

    I feel ill.
    Why ill haha?
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    The left wingers will welcome this and actively support it
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    The Kurds are the only ones I would support in the region, the reason they aren't a bunch of cowardly, backstabbing scumbags is because they are Kurdish first and Muslim a distant second their religion doesn't define them.

    As for war crimes when you are fighting the likes of ISIS which is trying to wipe them from existence I am struggling to care ISIS deserve to be treated like scum.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    The Kurds are the only ones I would support in the region, the reason they aren't a bunch of cowardly, backstabbing scumbags is because they are Kurdish first and Muslim a distant second their religion doesn't define them.

    As for war crimes when you are fighting the likes of ISIS which is trying to wipe them from existence I am struggling to care ISIS deserve to be treated like scum.
    The war crimes being committed by the Kurds aren't solely directed at ISIS. Besides, a war crime is a war crime, regardless of the victim.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    The war crimes being committed by the Kurds aren't solely directed at ISIS. Besides, a war crime is a war crime, regardless of the victim.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rian-civilians

    So their war crimes amount to forcing civilians who support ISIS out of their homes, they aren't shooting non believers in the head, they aren't strapping bombs to kids, they aren't releasing poison gas into villages.

    These people live in a world where everyone Assad, Turkey, Iraq, ISIS are trying to wipe them out, a people that has suffered horrendously for years I think they can be excused for forcing the civilians that support ISIS out of their homes and I honestly don't give a fcuk if they mutilate the body of some terrorist scumbag from ISIS who has just raped and killed some poor Kurdish women.

    These left wing politicians and beaurocats on 100k per year + that live in the west in a 5 bedroom house who go back to a wife and kids every night after working 9 to 5 in an office have no right to expect these poor people to follow the rules and regulations that they make up when the Kurds are facing enemies who are probably the most evil group of people since the Middle Ages. In the real world in a war for survival the Geneva convention those morals cannot truly be followed, if Britain and the Allies had followed those rules to the book they would never have won WW2 Germany would have crushed us, but at the same time it doesn't mean we need to become animals I'd say considering their situation the Kurds have found a good balance.
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    Just going to interrupt and stress that ISIS is barely Islamic and they use Islam for their own political and financial gains.
    Don't bother replying with some 'Islam is a religuunnn of the evil zombi killa paedos' just reflect on what I said and so some extra research from real sources and preferably look into 'ISIS Khwarij' on Google.

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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rian-civilians

    So their war crimes amount to forcing civilians who support ISIS out of their homes, they aren't shooting non believers in the head, they aren't strapping bombs to kids, they aren't releasing poison gas into villages.

    These people live in a world where everyone Assad, Turkey, Iraq, ISIS are trying to wipe them out, a people that has suffered horrendously for years I think they can be excused for forcing the civilians that support ISIS out of their homes and I honestly don't give a fcuk if they mutilate the body of some terrorist scumbag from ISIS who has just raped and killed some poor Kurdish women.

    These left wing politicians and beaurocats on 100k per year + that live in the west in a 5 bedroom house who go back to a wife and kids every night after working 9 to 5 in an office have no right to expect these poor people to follow the rules and regulations that they make up when the Kurds are facing enemies who are probably the most evil group of people since the Middle Ages. In the real world in a war for survival the Geneva convention those morals cannot truly be followed, if Britain and the Allies had followed those rules to the book they would never have won WW2 Germany would have crushed us, but at the same time it doesn't mean we need to become animals I'd say considering their situation the Kurds have found a good balance.
    Most western leaders are currently right wing, not left. Cameron, Merkel and even Obama are all right wing when looking at the political spectrum, as are most European nation leaders.

    Anyway, to the point. We have every right to expect war to be fought in accordance to international law - that's how we show we are better than them. As I said, I'm not against the Kurds, I sympathise and support their cause. I am merely pointing out that they too are guilty of war crimes. As were the allies during the Second World War. That doesn't mean I wished the allies had lost, and nobody is saying the Kurds are worse than ISIS. I was pointing out, as you know, the Kurds have committed war crimes. Whether you agree or disagree with their activities is irrelevant. The law applies to all. We can't have one rule for one side, and a completely different rule for the other.

    I also disagree entirely and find it quite disrespectful that you believe that the entire reason why the allies won the war was because they disregarded the Geneva convention - that simply is not true. Most strategic decisions made by the allies were well within the Geneva conventions. Which rules are you referring to which if "Britain and the Allies had followed those rules to the book they would never have won WW2"?
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Most western leaders are currently right wing, not left. Cameron, Merkel and even Obama are all right wing when looking at the political spectrum, as are most European nation leaders.

    Anyway, to the point. We have every right to expect war to be fought in accordance to international law - that's how we show we are better than them. As I said, I'm not against the Kurds, I sympathise and support their cause. I am merely pointing out that they too are guilty of war crimes. As were the allies during the Second World War. That doesn't mean I wished the allies had lost, and nobody is saying the Kurds are worse than ISIS. I was pointing out, as you know, the Kurds have committed war crimes. Whether you agree or disagree with their activities is irrelevant. The law applies to all. We can't have one rule for one side, and a completely different rule for the other.

    I also disagree entirely and find it quite disrespectful that you believe that the entire reason why the allies won the war was because they disregarded the Geneva convention - that simply is not true. Most strategic decisions made by the allies were well within the Geneva conventions.
    Merkel is never right wing in a million years, Cameron and Obama I'll give you but still close to the centre, a large amount of EU politicians are left wing however.

    I'm not saying we completely break the Geneva convention in wars like Afghan and Iraq where we are overwhelmingly stronger than the enemy sure we can afford to make an extra effort infact I think some of the US policies of mass drone bombing villages is completely wrong. But for instance the jailing of Sergeant Alexander Blackman is a joke by spineless morons.

    The law isn't infalable it can and should be changed if need be its made by men and women who don't have any clue about the reality of war. I'm not suggesting we play by different rules at all, infact all the enemies we have faced over the last hundred years haven't played by the rules at all while we have probably been the least brutal and most merciful army on earth.

    In a war for survival it is necessary whever you like it or not it's a FACT that you cannot dispute, We didn't completely disregard the Geneva convention but we certianly didn't follow it to the letter If we hadn't mass bombed German cities we would
    never have beaten them and. Nor would I expect the soldiers who liberated the Concentration camps or the Jewish prisoners not to kill the SS guards who had oppressed them.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    Merkel is never right wing in a million years, Cameron and Obama I'll give you but still close to the centre, a large amount of EU politicians are left wing however.

    I'm not saying we completely break the Geneva convention in wars like Afghan and Iraq where we are overwhelmingly stronger than the enemy sure we can afford to make an extra effort infact I think some of the US policies of mass drone bombing villages is completely wrong. But for instance the jailing of Sergeant Alexander Blackman is a joke by spineless morons.

    The law isn't infalable it can and should be changed if need be its made by men and women who don't have any clue about the reality of war. I'm not suggesting we play by different rules at all, infact all the enemies we have faced over the last hundred years haven't played by the rules at all while we have probably been the least brutal and most merciful army on earth.

    In a war for survival it is necessary whever you like it or not it's a FACT that you cannot dispute, We didn't completely disregard the Geneva convention but we certianly didn't follow it to the letter If we hadn't mass bombed German cities we would
    never have beaten them and. Nor would I expect the soldiers who liberated the Concentration camps or the Jewish prisoners not to kill the SS guards who had oppressed them.
    The law is the law, you can't pick and choose when and when it doesn't apply. It applies in both wars of survival and in wars where we have overwhelming firepower. You might have to break the law to survive, the same way one might break the law by speeding if carrying a passenger to hospital that needs immediate emergence care, but that doesn't suddenly become a "non crime". It is still a crime. The punishment (if any) that one should get for carrying out such a crime is an entirely different matter to the categorization of the activity. One might be let off scot free, because they made the right decision. But they still committed a crime, must be made accountable, and if the jury decides mitigating circumstances means that no punishment is warranted, then that is fine. Do you understand? It must be accountable.

    I don't think mass bombing of German cities is either 1) a good example of the Geneva convention being broken, it's a bit of a grey area and 2) something that contributed massively to the German defeat. Likewise, Jews escaping concentration camps and in the process killing SS guards is not a war crime. If the guard resisted, they are an armed combatant.
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    The Kurds are obviously nicer than all the rest of them but they're obviously no more or less likely to be barbaric given funding. Are there enough Kurds to make a difference? I mean they have been the obvious option in Middle East proxy wars stretching back decades and we haven't given them anything so there must be some reason why not. They've no oil rich allies I suppose, same reason we don't support the "Shia axis" for example the Palestinians
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    (Original post by SHBKhan)
    Just going to interrupt and stress that ISIS is barely Islamic and they use Islam for their own political and financial gains.
    Don't bother replying with some 'Islam is a religuunnn of the evil zombi killa paedos' just reflect on what I said and so some extra research from real sources and preferably look into 'ISIS Khwarij' on Google.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Are you walking down a No True Scotsman?
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    The law is the law, you can't pick and choose when and when it doesn't apply. It applies in both wars of survival and in wars where we have overwhelming firepower. You might have to break the law to survive, the same way one might break the law by speeding if carrying a passenger to hospital that needs immediate emergence care, but that doesn't suddenly become a "non crime". It is still a crime. The punishment (if any) that one should get for carrying out such a crime is an entirely different matter to the categorization of the activity. One might be let off scot free, because they made the right decision. But they still committed a crime, must be made accountable, and if the jury decides mitigating circumstances means that no punishment is warranted, then that is fine. Do you understand? It must be accountable.

    I don't think mass bombing of German cities is either 1) a good example of the Geneva convention being broken, it's a bit of a grey area and 2) something that contributed massively to the German defeat. Likewise, Jews escaping concentration camps and in the process killing SS guards is not a war crime. If the guard resisted, they are an armed combatant.

    Crimes are unlawful acts. The law specifically allows certain scenarios where you commit acts that would otherwise be unlawful. In those cases no they aren't crimes.

    It's no grey area. Terror bombing is definately a war crime. The grey area is whether or not it was necessary and for the greater good.
    I imagine the Kurds whole heartedly believe their 'war crime' measures, ie. forcing Arabs sympathetic to ISIS to foxtrot oscar out of their territory are necessary for the war effort and will help them win. Proportional to the danger the Kurds face, I can not manage to find one single **** I can give about these Arabs losing their homes.
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    (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
    Your 'amazing' YPG have been accused of 'ethnic cleansing' by Amnesty International among other atrocities. :laugh:
    There have been a handful of incidents involving some YPG fighters, but nothing systematic or large scale. The YPG's human rights record is still far better than that of any other faction in the Syrian war.

    The YPG has a decent number of Arabs allied to it, including FSA rebel groups (some of these groups also came out and rejected some ethnic cleasing claims last June). They have Christians, Assyrians, Yazidis, etc allied to them as well.

    A lot of ethnic cleansing accusations originated from ISIS supporters, from Turkey, and from a statement from Islamist rebel groups (including Ahrar al Sham if I recall correctly) that was made around the time the YPG pushed towards and captured Tall Abyad last June. So a decent number of the original reports are from highly biased sources.

    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    I wouldn't call the YPG/ YPJ amazing either. In terms of effectiveness or in terms of conformity to the Geneva conventions. They also have committed war crimes.

    That isn't to say I don't support the Kurds, or am some sort of ISIS shill. It's an observation, and lets keep some perspective to things - it's a war, crimes will be committed by all sides.

    Young woman probably aren't flocking to join because 1) they are poorly equipped 2) they aren't very effective 3) they keep dying 4) they have young families to look after.

    Britain should keep out of the conflict completely.
    The YPG have been very effective over the course of the last year. The only faction in Syria that has consistently pushed back ISIS, including driving them out of large urban areas (e.g. Hassakeh), despite being lightly armed.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    The Kurds are obviously nicer than all the rest of them but they're obviously no more or less likely to be barbaric given funding. Are there enough Kurds to make a difference? I mean they have been the obvious option in Middle East proxy wars stretching back decades and we haven't given them anything so there must be some reason why not. They've no oil rich allies I suppose, same reason we don't support the "Shia axis" for example the Palestinians
    Who we give support often has nothing to do with any humanitarian concerns. We have armed much worse than the kurds in the past... Including the type of nutty Muslim terrorists types we found ourselves being attacked by today. If anything not receiving our support probably paints them in a good light :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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