Is it islamaphobic to be anti-ISIS? Watch

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Maia_
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Ahmed766)
Just like Judaism and Zionism are two completely different things, hating Zionism doesn't make you an anti Semite.
Zionism hijacked the name of Judaism to do their dirty work just like ISIS hijacked the name of Islam. hating ISIS does not make you Islamaphobic as I would be an Islamophobic Muslim by that definition.
??? Zionism didn’t hijack the name of Judaism.
To many religious Jews, Israel is the promised land (hence the name ZIONism). Even non-religious Jews value having a country that we can live in freedom, safe from persecution.
You’re getting angry at us for wanting a homeland. Our history is an endless cycle of “we were doing okay for a bit, we were partially integrated, and now the political climate’s changed and once again we’re heavily persecuted, if not outright murdered”.
Israel is our home. I’ve never lived there, and I don’t plan to, but knowing that there is a place where people know what is/isn’t kosher, and know how to pronounce my Hebrew name is comforting. Somewhere where being Jewish isn’t abnormal or oppressed. Even western countries have a history of ignoring antisemitism which has been catastrophic. We still haven't got our numbers back since the holocaust and the pogroms.

It’s been shown that trauma is carried through generations. Descendants of people who survived the holocaust have different stress hormone profiles than their peers. Jews grow up leaning that our ancestors were killed in genocide. We were taught to call them ‘us’, to keep their trauma alive, because forgetting would be a disservice to everything they sacrificed for us. Most Jewish celebrations are ‘there was a genocide, we almost died but we didn’t’. How do you think it feels growing up with that.

Antisemitism is constantly ignored. The UK ignored the rise of antisemitism leading up to the second world was and look what happened. The UK still doesn’t admit to it because those who won wars write the history and can erase their wrongs.
Israel isn’t a country wanted out of greed. It’s a comfort to millions knowing that there is a place that would welcome us with open arms. This doesn’t mean i agree with the Israeli governments actions, before some goyim jumps on here and starts talking about Palestine.
Zionism isn’t an inherently bad thing. It’s jews wanting to live in a homeland, but I don’t think that Israeli policy reflects that.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by CuriosityYay)
I'm 16 so please give me a bit of background, do you mean like America and Russia fighting in Iraq for the oil for example?
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and plenty more countries, it's been happening for years. If muslims living in the Middle East were to read the Qu'ran literally, they would all be members of ISIS. Luckily, like most religions, most Muslims aren't as devout as they once were and try to read it in a more figurative sense as opposed to literally. ISIS also takes word from Muhammad etc. where he advocates punishing gays, but then so do a lot of Muslim countries.
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Sorry, but the world isn't all dandies and roses. If you wanted to read happy stories all the time, maybe this would be more suitable for you.
Yes, obviously the world isn't all "dandies and roses" (what kind of analogy is that?). However, with the majority of threads I have seen you post in, your posts were negative. It appears to me that there must be some sort of negative factor in your life, which causes you to lash out online as you have no one to lash out to irl due to the sheer misery that is your life If you take a quick look at your profile page, you can see that there is an abundance of negative comments, which reveals you as nothing more than a troll. I find your anti-semetic views disturbing, I also find your lack of research to be amusing. Islam does not forbid one to be a homosexual, as people are born that way. It forbids someone "to lay" with another of that same sex. Meaning that homosexual acts are prohibited, not that the homosexuals themselves are 🤦*♂️. There are no verses in the Quran which incite violence, it is rather the opposite. You may not be aware of this, but there were holy wars fought thousands of years ago. Both sides were equally involved. The few verses that do "incite violence" were written at this time and based purely on holy war for the safety of the individual. Come back when you've read the entire Quran in Engish and stop generalising from a few quotes you've picked out from a Google search 🤦*♂️.
Last edited by FTheOpps; 1 week ago
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CuriosityYay
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and plenty more countries, it's been happening for years. If muslims living in the Middle East were to read the Qu'ran literally, they would all be members of ISIS. Luckily, like most religions, most Muslims aren't as devout as they once were and try to read it in a more figurative sense as opposed to literally. ISIS also takes word from Muhammad etc. where he advocates punishing gays, but then so do a lot of Muslim countries.
Disclaimer: these are approximate translations

Most verses are sharp and you can't discuss it for example: Don't get near adultery, it is a sin and the path only gets worse

They ask you concerning wine and gambling. Say, ‘There is a great sin in both of them, and some profits for the people, but their sinfulness outweighs their profit.’ And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say, ‘All that is surplus.’ Thus does Allah clarify His signs for you so that you may reflect

O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous. Indeed Satan seeks to cast enmity and hatred among you through wine and gambling, and to hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you, then, relinquish?
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by CuriosityYay)
Disclaimer: these are approximate translations

Most verses are sharp and you can't discuss it for example: Don't get near adultery, it is a sin and the path only gets worse

They ask you concerning wine and gambling. Say, ‘There is a great sin in both of them, and some profits for the people, but their sinfulness outweighs their profit.’ And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say, ‘All that is surplus.’ Thus does Allah clarify His signs for you so that you may reflect

O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous. Indeed Satan seeks to cast enmity and hatred among you through wine and gambling, and to hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you, then, relinquish?
This ^^^
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by CuriosityYay)
Disclaimer: these are approximate translations

Most verses are sharp and you can't discuss it for example: Don't get near adultery, it is a sin and the path only gets worse

They ask you concerning wine and gambling. Say, ‘There is a great sin in both of them, and some profits for the people, but their sinfulness outweighs their profit.’ And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say, ‘All that is surplus.’ Thus does Allah clarify His signs for you so that you may reflect

O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous. Indeed Satan seeks to cast enmity and hatred among you through wine and gambling, and to hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you, then, relinquish?
(Original post by FTheOpps)
This ^^^
Not sure what relevance gambling and wine have to stoning gays and committing acts of terrorism?
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Gent2324
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it probably is islamophobic to hate on isis. people in isis follow the quran closely and alot of people dont understand that the word "phobia" can also mean to have aversion towards something
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
There is no negative factor in my life, I'm just intelligent enough and interested enough to understand and watch/read the news and current affairs.

The negative comments are all from people like yourself, who struggle to separate facts from emotions and are hence too fragile to even be on a debate thread. You'll also notice a pattern, which shows the majority of those people leaving negative comments struggle to form simple sentences or formulate their own opinion, and can't seem to realise when they've been proven to look foolish. Fools tend to lash out quite a lot and get personal upon realising they've lost the debate, coincidentally something you've done. However, my followers far outweigh the negative comments, so it's a pretty moot point.

I'm not anti-semitic, never have been never will be, not sure what gave you that impression. Though maybe you just misread a comment or didn't understand something, which is highly likely.

Again, you've struggled to read read even 3 sentences correctly without letting your clear anger overshadow your ability to argue. I never said homosexuals were forbidden. I find your lack of comprehension ability pretty amusing.

In terms of holy wars, I'm not sure why you think I don't know about these? As your other friend, the one who doesn't present himself as an utter moron, mentioned: the Qu'ran only support fighting when someone else is fighting them. As we have already established, you're probably a bit simple minded for current affairs debates, but the West has been fighting in the Middle East for years now, which constitutes as fighting. Hence, ISIS is a retaliation to that, and so they are, in fact, reading the Qu'ran literally.

I don't think you know what quotation marks are used for, but I'l tell you now that they are used to quote things. Considering I never even mentioned the words 'incite violence' I'm not sure what reason you included them for. Unless you were referring to me saying 'advocated violence', which as you have already stated, is allowed 'for the safety of the individual'

Come back when you've figured out what you're arguing and how you're going to argue it. Like with the many who have posted on my wall, I will happily show you up as a fool... and likely get a couple followers out of it as well.

Ah yes, I'm not surprised you resonated well with that one, you seem to be in the same ballpark IQ wise. For a bit of background information, that was the guy who got in 6 different arguments on the same thread, all of which saw the other people calling him out for his idiocy, misspelt the word 'friends' in his username and claimed that not being attracted to a black girl (not all black girls, just a specific black girl) made you a racist xenophobe.

In terms of a couple of the rest of the people who posted on my wall

One of them was someone who had dropped out of two different universities, including the Open University, after taking 6 years to get through half of a bachelors degree because it was 'too difficult', got called out for being lazy and idiotic by, approximately, 8 different people on her thread, and struggles to use logic or form coherent sentences.

One of them called me a legend... oh hang on that's a good one, that doesn't help your case

One of them... oh that's it. Right. It's clear you've aligned yourself with a very particular demographic, I pity your parents for having to put so much time and money into raising you.
Honestly, I cba to read all of this because I know it's all bs. From what I have read, let me say this. You say there is no negative factor in your life. Does that mean there never has been? From looking through your posts I found a thread detailing your personal family life, your mother cheated on your father. Your father is an incompetent fool, which makes sense as you have inherited genes from him.

From what I can see, you are a very arrogant person. You think very highly of yourself and you believe that the majority of the population is less intelligent than you. You are only interested in jobs with high pay.

Furthermore, you wrote a lengthy response to mine. This shows that you are sensitive to negative criticism as you view yourself as above the, in your mind, inferior majority of the population and believe that you possess an intelligence so high that any of your points cannot be refuted as they are right.
Last edited by FTheOpps; 1 week ago
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FTheOpps
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Wow, you reported me. How nice of you. Guess I'll have to return the favour
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by FTheOpps)
Honestly, I cba to read all of this because I know it's all bs. From what I have read, let me say this. You say there is no negative factor in your life. Does that mean there never has been? From looking through your posts I found a thread detailing your personal family life, your mother cheated on your father. Your father is an incompetent fool, which makes sense as you have inherit genes from him.

From what I can see, you are a very arrogant person. You think very highly of yourself and you believe that the majority of the population is less intelligent than you. You are only interested in jobs with high pay.

Furthermore, you wrote a lengthy response to mine. This shows that you are sensitive to negative criticism as you view yourself as above the, in your mind, inferior majority of the population and believe that you possess an intelligence so high that any of your points cannot be refuted as they are right. The
Lol what my mother never cheated on my father and my father isn't an incompetent fool.

I am not an arrogant person, that would be to think I have an exaggerated sense of myself. I do think highly of myself, because I have the academics and life to back it up, I don't believe the majority of the population is less intelligent than me, unless you're talking purely academic, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of fools out there, yourself included, who I do deem to be of below average intelligence. I am only interested in jobs with high pay, I have grown up being pretty successful at most things, it should only make sense that I continue this into the job market. I'm sorry you haven't been successful enough in your life to hold high aspirations, quite sad really.

I wrote a lengthy response to you because I have some time to kill and it was quite easy to refute every point. Considering it was in response to two comments, the first answer was only slightly more than your response (it looks bigger because I know how to use paragraphs) and the second one is shorter than your response. I don't think you've quite grasped the concept of logic, just because my points are good, doesn't mean I don't think they can't be refuted. But it's clear you aren't intelligent enough to refute it.

I'm sorry that, from your position, it looks like I'm arrogant, but honestly, it is just because I am quite a lot smarter than you.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by FTheOpps)
Wow, you reported me. How nice of you. Guess I'll have to return the favour
Didn't report you, but mods got to my post as well, it was likely your personal attacks (due to your inability to debate) that set them off. Sadly, that means I now have to spend 30 seconds reporting you, it's only fair.
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Lol what my mother never cheated on my father and my father isn't an incompetent fool.

I am not an arrogant person, that would be to think I have an exaggerated sense of myself. I do think highly of myself, because I have the academics and life to back it up, I don't believe the majority of the population is less intelligent than me, unless you're talking purely academic, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of fools out there, yourself included, who I do deem to be of below average intelligence. I am only interested in jobs with high pay, I have grown up being pretty successful at most things, it should only make sense that I continue this into the job market. I'm sorry you haven't been successful enough in your life to hold high aspirations, quite sad really.

I wrote a lengthy response to you because I have some time to kill and it was quite easy to refute every point. Considering it was in response to two comments, the first answer was only slightly more than your response (it looks bigger because I know how to use paragraphs) and the second one is shorter than your response. I don't think you've quite grasped the concept of logic, just because my points are good, doesn't mean I don't think they can't be refuted. But it's clear you aren't intelligent enough to refute it.

I'm sorry that, from your position, it looks like I'm arrogant, but honestly, it is just because I am quite a lot smarter than you.
Wow, in two paragraphs and two sentences you have absolutely proved my points. Can we have a round of applause for Mr. That'sGreat?
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Didn't report you, but mods got to my post as well, it was likely your personal attacks (due to your inability to debate) that set them off. Sadly, that means I now have to spend 30 seconds reporting you, it's only fair.
Fair enough for the first half a sentence. My inability to debate? I clearly disproved your points on the Quran lol wdym.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by FTheOpps)
Fair enough for the first half a sentence. My inability to debate? I clearly disproved your points on the Quran lol wdym.
If you read the post you'd see you weren't actually debating points which I raised, and actually went onto prove my points.
(Original post by FTheOpps)
Wow, in two paragraphs and two sentences you have absolutely proved my points. Can we have a round of applause for Mr. That'sGreat?
The only point I proved for you was that I think I am smarter than the average person and you. Because I am. It is not arrogance, because it is not exaggerated, it is based off of facts and track record.
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CuriosityYay
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Not sure what relevance gambling and wine have to stoning gays and committing acts of terrorism?
I was giving an example of how Quran could give no way for debate on some matters.
(Original post by That'sGreat)
like most religions, most Muslims aren't as devout as they once were and try to read it in a more figurative sense as opposed to literally.
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by Maia_)
??? Zionism didn’t hijack the name of Judaism.
To many religious Jews, Israel is the promised land (hence the name ZIONism). Even non-religious Jews value having a country that we can live in freedom, safe from persecution.
You’re getting angry at us for wanting a homeland. Our history is an endless cycle of “we were doing okay for a bit, we were partially integrated, and now the political climate’s changed and once again we’re heavily persecuted, if not outright murdered”.
Israel is our home. I’ve never lived there, and I don’t plan to, but knowing that there is a place where people know what is/isn’t kosher, and know how to pronounce my Hebrew name is comforting. Somewhere where being Jewish isn’t abnormal or oppressed. Even western countries have a history of ignoring antisemitism which has been catastrophic. We still haven't got our numbers back since the holocaust and the pogroms.

It’s been shown that trauma is carried through generations. Descendants of people who survived the holocaust have different stress hormone profiles than their peers. Jews grow up leaning that our ancestors were killed in genocide. We were taught to call them ‘us’, to keep their trauma alive, because forgetting would be a disservice to everything they sacrificed for us. Most Jewish celebrations are ‘there was a genocide, we almost died but we didn’t’. How do you think it feels growing up with that.

Antisemitism is constantly ignored. The UK ignored the rise of antisemitism leading up to the second world was and look what happened. The UK still doesn’t admit to it because those who won wars write the history and can erase their wrongs.
Israel isn’t a country wanted out of greed. It’s a comfort to millions knowing that there is a place that would welcome us with open arms. This doesn’t mean i agree with the Israeli governments actions, before some goyim jumps on here and starts talking about Palestine.
Zionism isn’t an inherently bad thing. It’s jews wanting to live in a homeland, but I don’t think that Israeli policy reflects that.
First of all how dare you call me a goyim, you should be greatful that you were lucky enough to recive your 'god given homeland' from the British Empire, a homeland that is certainly not deserved and one that you have abused, making it one of the biggest mistakes of Britain, you have and had no right to our land, our land that the Arabic and jewish people were allowed to prosper under and certainly after us it was not the jews who had right to that land, it was the Arabs. Israel is as much of your home as the Falklands is Argentinian (absolutely none) or that the Angevin Empire is rightfully ours (absolutely none)

I do not see the British crying about the traumatic experiences of the napoleonic wars all the way to ww2, certainly not crying enough that they can fabricate a 'homeland' on foreign soil. I do not see the Russians crying over the millions of people who died to give us what we have today, nor the Americans or any other brave nationality. No one even cares for the Ukrainians who went under just a brutal genocide with numbers possibly even being higher, few care for the genocide of the Armenians or really any other atrocity.


I am very glad you can demand the annexation of soverign land due to "wanting a place where people can pronounce your name" and "oh we need a homeland because uh bad things happened to us". You cannot hide behind the holocaust forever.

The jews even have a private policeforce among their ghettos in London, highly insular communities that are often complained about in cases where it is muslims or arabs, both are just as bad yet only one is ever talked about.
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FTheOpps
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
If you read the post you'd see you weren't actually debating points which I raised, and actually went onto prove my points.


The only point I proved for you was that I think I am smarter than the average person and you. Because I am. It is not arrogance, because it is not exaggerated, it is based off of facts and track record.
No, I gave you context. What you did was take those bits from the Quran out of context.

Modesty is often a trait possessed by someone who is intelligent. You have none. Facts? Anyone can get good grades if they study hard.
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monchoo
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
Sorry, but the world isn't all dandies and roses. If you wanted to read happy stories all the time, maybe this would be more suitable for you.

Except the bits where it advocates violence and oppression
Let me ask you a question, have you actually read the Quran? Because to me, it is clear that you haven't. Do not take verses out of context and label them as 'advocating violence and oppression'. You can do the exact same with any religious book or anything for that matter. Not taking context into account is the main reason Islam is portrayed the way it is. Yes, ISIS does not represent Islam in any aspect because they advocate violence and Islam values peace and friendship. If you would have read the Quran you would know that it says "To kill one man is like killing all of mankind, and to save one man is like saving all of mankind". In the story of the two brothers where one kills the other out of jealousy and anger, the moral and message of the story is that anger and jealousy are negative emotions and killing is one of the biggest sins and is highly frowned upon. Of course, you would know this if you had actually bothered to pick up a Quran and read it before spouting hatred about it.

Kindly take your ******** elsewhere.
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_.angelica._
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Islamaphobia is not anti ISIS. ISIS are a group of terrorists who have misconstrued the Quran and are now using it as an excuse to commit terrible crimes under the name of Islam, even though the vast majority of those who practice Islam are against every thing they do. This means being islamaphobic is the wrong way to go about combatting terrorism - it’s blaming innocent people for the crimes of the guilty. As someone once said ‘we are only weak as we are divided’, so it’s better to put hatred for a religion aside and to focus on the individuals who are responsible for instilling this hated in the first place.
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monchoo
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Right, so you are saying this as a Muslim scholar who has read the Quran and studied it for many years thus becoming a scholar? Or are you saying this as a Muslim who has read the Quran with translation and practises? Or are you saying this as someone who has actually read the Quran even once with translation and actually tried to understand it? While saying that Muslims aren't as devout as they used to be you are speaking for millions, heck, billions of people. Do not go around making generalised statements to push your Islamophobic agenda without knowing the first correct thing about Islam. While saying that Muslims aren't as devout as they used to be you are speaking for millions, heck, billions of people.
(Original post by That'sGreat)
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and plenty more countries, it's been happening for years. If muslims living in the Middle East were to read the Qu'ran literally, they would all be members of ISIS. Luckily, like most religions, most Muslims aren't as devout as they once were and try to read it in a more figurative sense as opposed to literally. ISIS also takes word from Muhammad etc. where he advocates punishing gays, but then so do a lot of Muslim countries.
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