Mock eu referendum at canterbury kent! Seriously????

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string210
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#1
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Kent decided to do a mock eu referendum, one of my mates goes there so the feed popped up on facebook. So i thought i'd look. Roughly 500 people voted and 430 odd votes yes to stay in eu, and 70 to say no.

I can't believe how so many people think we can stay in when there are an infinite number of problems with the eu. Is it just because students are typically left wingers, are they afraid of leaving. I don't know?
But my main question is what percentage do people actually think it would be of yes/no votes in the real referendum.
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username1799249
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(Original post by string210)
I can't believe how so many people think we can stay in when there are an infinite number of problems with the eu.
I can't believe that those who think we should leave think that those infinite number of problems will suddenly just disappear as if by magic.

If we leave the EU, we will still suffer the wrath of EU bureaucracy and uncontrollable immigration. However we will no longer have a say in any of it at a European level and will have the added problem of finally seeing the break up of the union as Scotland bid auf wiedersehen.
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string210
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I can't believe that those who think we should leave think that those infinite number of problems will suddenly just disappear as if by magic.

If we leave the EU, we will still suffer the wrath of EU bureaucracy and uncontrollable immigration. However we will no longer have a say in any of it at a European level and will have the added problem of finally seeing the break up of the union as Scotland bid auf wiedersehen.
How will we still suffer uncontrollable immigration, if we are now able to control our borders by choosing who enters our country?
How will we still suffer the wrath of eu bureaucracy?
This is a genuine question i'm asking, not trying to sound sarcastic, genuinely interested in your opinion!
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sleepysnooze
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#4
(Original post by ByEeek)
I can't believe that those who think we should leave think that those infinite number of problems will suddenly just disappear as if by magic.

If we leave the EU, we will still suffer the wrath of EU bureaucracy and uncontrollable immigration. However we will no longer have a say in any of it at a European level and will have the added problem of finally seeing the break up of the union as Scotland bid auf wiedersehen.
1) how will those things happen without being a member? :|
2) why would scotland give that much of a ****? I thought they were all bloody socialists - why would *they* care about trade? or immigration? if they want more immigrants then they can still get them
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string210
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
1) how will those things happen without being a member? :|
2) why would scotland give that much of a ****? I thought they were all bloody socialists - why would *they* care about trade? or immigration? if they want more immigrants then they can still get them
You won't get an answer from them, i don't think there's any substance to the argument, so they've just done a runner!
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username1799249
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(Original post by string210)
How will we still suffer uncontrollable immigration, if we are now able to control our borders by choosing who enters our country?
How will we still suffer the wrath of eu bureaucracy?
This is a genuine question i'm asking, not trying to sound sarcastic, genuinely interested in your opinion!
Fair questions to ask indeed.

We don't currently have control over immigration. The target for non-EU immigration is currently set at around 100,000. In the last year over 200,000 people have come into the country legally from outside the EU. Immigration controls were tightened but if you remember this resulted in returning holiday makers having to wait 6+ hours to get through passport control. And that is for genuine immigration within the standards and guidelines set out by the government. We don't actually know about all the illegals who hid on lorries etc.

As for legislation - if you want to sell your products to Europe they have to conform to EU legislation and standards. If your company trades in the EU, it is still accountable to EU law just as if you trade in the US, you are accountable to US law. So there is nothing gained there. For a bit of perspective, huge swathes of EU directives have been implemented in US and Chinese law. It allows their companies to trade with the EU and that is good for us as consumers because it means we don't suffer from injury as a result of dodgy lethal Chinese imports as we did 20 years ago.

However, if we leave the EU we leave all the decision making that we have to adhere to and implement to others. The countries that we leave to run the EU could do what they liked and we can only stand on the sidelines and hope someone listens. Both the US and China wish us to stay in the EU as they feel we can influence the EU. Were we to leave I would not be surprised if the "special" relationship we have with the US soured as we became less insignificant on the world stage.

Leaving the EU terrifies me. Not because I have no fear of immigration and many of the other challenges, but because it is a complete leap of faith into the unknown and it is people's emotions that are driving the move to leave rather than having a rational debate.
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Aj12
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#7
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#7
(Original post by string210)
How will we still suffer uncontrollable immigration, if we are now able to control our borders by choosing who enters our country?
How will we still suffer the wrath of eu bureaucracy?
This is a genuine question i'm asking, not trying to sound sarcastic, genuinely interested in your opinion!
We currently work with the French to process migrants on French soil. If we leave the EU that will end and if they are feeling petty they will wave through an endless stream of migrants.

In terms of eu bureaucracy we will still be beholden to it. To trade with the EU you need to follow EU law. If we leave we will have to continue to implement many EU laws without any say over them.

The leave campaign is running a very similar one to the yes Scotland campaign. Present an easy, clean break where little will change and only the bad things will go away.

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Davij038
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#8
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#8
I go to Kent university, although I didn't attend the debate. Cambridge university also voted to stay in too!


(Original post by string210)
How will we still suffer uncontrollable immigration, if we are now able to control our borders by choosing who enters our country?
How will we still suffer the wrath of eu bureaucracy?
This is a genuine question i'm asking, not trying to sound sarcastic, genuinely interested in your opinion!
With immigration there are a number of factors to consider

First off Ukips Australian model doesn't work half as well as people think it does http://leftfootforward.org/2015/03/u...-from-perfect/

Second is the political will and more pudeny political capital needed to implement these changes IE the costs needed to train and retain labour shortages etc in addition to mitigate the UKs shrinking birth weight.

As for how we would still be under EU bureaucracy we would still be operating under EU free trade rules and as per Norway and Switzerland contributing a hefty sum- Norways foreign minister has recently come out and said that this option is the worst of both worlds.
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username1799249
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
1) how will those things happen without being a member? :|
2) why would scotland give that much of a ****? I thought they were all bloody socialists - why would *they* care about trade? or immigration? if they want more immigrants then they can still get them
I can't talk for Scotland but it has been made pretty clear that if the UK moves to leave the EU, Scotland will seek a second referendum on independence and in my opinion will win.

So not only will we be left with no influence in the EU, we will be weakened by the loss of a strong partnership. We will become as significant as Iceland whilst trying to pretend we are still a world power.
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sleepysnooze
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#10
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I can't talk for Scotland but it has been made pretty clear that if the UK moves to leave the EU, Scotland will seek a second referendum on independence and in my opinion will win.

So not only will we be left with no influence in the EU, we will be weakened by the loss of a strong partnership. We will become as significant as Iceland whilst trying to pretend we are still a world power.
1) why is our influence inside the EU even important to us, though? how does it materially benefit us?
2) what's wrong with not being "significant" regarding world power? do we *want* world power other than our own defence? are we wanting to start more wars or something?
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balanced
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#11
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#11
(Original post by string210)
Kent decided to do a mock eu referendum, one of my mates goes there so the feed popped up on facebook. So i thought i'd look. Roughly 500 people voted and 430 odd votes yes to stay in eu, and 70 to say no.

I can't believe how so many people think we can stay in when there are an infinite number of problems with the eu. Is it just because students are typically left wingers, are they afraid of leaving. I don't know?
But my main question is what percentage do people actually think it would be of yes/no votes in the real referendum.
The eu is old-fashioned and no longer fit for purpose, Even on the mirror their poll was over 70% leave, I think a country wide referendum would be at least 60% leave, perhaps a lot more.
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username1799249
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#12
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#12
(Original post by sleepysnooze)
1) why is our influence inside the EU even important to us, though? how does it materially benefit us?
2) what's wrong with not being "significant" regarding world power? do we *want* world power other than our own defence? are we wanting to start more wars or something?
Fair questions. From a trade point of view if you are the little guy trying to sell to the big guy, it is going to be on his terms. The Euroskeptics say that we will negotiate new terms, but what if the EU don't want to do that and decide to adopt an all or nothing position? It is a huge gamble.

Point 2 - a good point and one I kind of agree with. I find the irony of the Euroskeptic argument which talks about sovereignty, self determination and not taking orders from the Germans seems to come from the rose tinted spectacles of empire. Yet to leave the EU bloc would leave us even more isolated, with less influence i.e. the opposite of the rose tinted view.

I can think of absolutely no situation in life where being alone is better than being part of a group of friends. Sure, you bicker with the friends, but that group is always better, more prosperous and stronger than the individual.

The days of being self sufficient are long gone. We are in a world economy now and being alone benefits no one.
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