Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Corbyn calls drones an "obscenity" watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Earlier today, Jeremy Corbyn said that Mohammed Emwazi has been "held to account" by the drone strike that killed him.

    And yet previously he called the raid that killed Bin Laden a "tragedy" and also called drones an "obscenity" (in the same speech he called for all guns to be banned as well; I wonder if he thinks the Kurds should have their Kalashnikov's confiscated?)

    Is he a hypocrite? Is he changing his views now that he is in power? If the Labour Party is going to have a leader who becomes rational once they are in the top job, it may as well have someone who is also credible. Otherwise what is Corbyn's USP? He's just the same as all other politicians, except grubbier and less principled in that most other members of the PLP already believed in the necessity of drones and reducing the deficit so they don't need to do a backflip when they become leader.

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I don't think many people realise that Mohamed Emwazi would never be captured. Even if ground soldiers entered Raqqa and attempted to drag him out, they would probably have killed trying. It was an opportunity to potentially save lives and it was therefore the right thing to do. It is absurd that people are saying it was wrong and he should have been given a formal trial because 1) that would glorify him as a war criminal as opposed to an executioner and 2) it doesn't send the message out that foreign jihadists are under threat and finally 3) it would be the most impractical mission to go into an IS stronghold and take a wanted terrorist out and bring him to the UK - if soldiers had entered Raqqa and started collecting prisoners, Emwazi would have followed his fellow IS soldiers to retreat elsewhere and would fight to the death because by definition these jihadists want to die fighting. Emwazi is dead and his legacy is now capped as a barbaric executioner.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    How do we know he's actually dead?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Corbyn is a clown. He still claims to be a man of principle yet he and McDonnell have distanced themselves from numerous fringe views and comments they held and said back when they were backbench nobodies. Loonies worshipping Corbyn makes me cringe.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    1. Soldiers on the ground - point a gun and shoot - we knew Bins whereabouts for a while apparently.
    2. No soldiers on the ground - no point sending them - not 100% sure if we got him or not.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    1. Soldiers on the ground - point a gun and shoot - we knew Bins whereabouts for a while apparently.
    2. No soldiers on the ground - no point sending them - not 100% sure if we got him or not.
    That's about right. He could pop up on a video tomorrow for all we know. Bit soon to start celebrating.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    How do we know he's actually dead?
    I don't think anyone has claimed that they are 100% certain he's dead. I think they are saying it's 99% certain he's dead. I would guess they know that from the same way they were able to verify where he was in the first place in order to fire a Hellfire missile at his car.

    We don't know how the intelligence services managed to find him, but one example would be if they had a HUMINT (human intelligence) source. It's been reported that they were watching the building where he was and that they knew when he left and got into a car. A guess is that the HUMINT source sent a text message to MI6/CIA to say "Emwazi is now leaving the house and getting in a car".

    Drones find it quite easy to track a moving car and place a Hellfire missile on a moving target. Once they knew he was actually in the car then it would be highly unlikely that he would escape once the strike was set in motion. It would like a little bit like this (video below, the strike is 50 seconds in). Can you imagine someone escaping from that car?

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by woIfie)
    I don't think anyone has claimed that they are 100% certain he's dead. I think they are saying it's 99% certain he's dead. I would guess they know that from the same way they were able to verify where he was in the first place in order to fire a Hellfire missile at his car.

    We don't know how the intelligence services managed to find him, but one example would be if they had a HUMINT (human intelligence) source. It's been reported that they were watching the building where he was and that they knew when he left and got into a car. A guess is that the HUMINT source sent a text message to MI6/CIA to say "Emwazi is now leaving the house and getting in a car".

    Drones find it quite easy to track a moving car and place a Hellfire missile on a moving target. Once they knew he was actually in the car then it would be highly unlikely that he would escape once the strike was set in motion. It would like a little bit like this (video below, the strike is 50 seconds in). Can you imagine someone escaping from that car?

    It's all very James Bondish but you could be right.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    It's all very James Bondish but you could be right.
    Somewhat. I find James Bond to be slightly ludicrous and not at all credible. I much prefer John le Carre.

    There's actually really not that much that is technologically extraordinary about someone being turned (probably for money) and ratting out Emwazi, and then a drone targeting the vehicle he's travelling in.

    The technology involved is similar to what you have in your smart phone (GPS, video cameras, etc).

    What is pretty remarkable these days is that as long as you have a GPS co-ordinate of a house where you know someone will be, it's remarkably easy to strike them. You just wait for them to come out and hop in a car (if you are trying to avoid civilian casualties and thus don't want to actually strike the house itself).

    The high-power video cameras on drones are able to track a moving target (very similar to the technology on a digital camera that points out where the face of the person you're photographing is), and the video camera on the drone also has an invisible (to the naked eye) laser pointer on it.

    You fire the missile, the missile has its own optical array that looks for the laser spot and simply flies towards it. That technology has been around since the 1960s

    I'm pretty confident he's dead, I know the government would be very circumspect and they would know it's possible they could be embarrassed if he didn't die. That's what leads me to believe they had a HUMINT source in the house with Emwazi who texted them as he was leaving the house which means they would be 100% certain that the care they were targeting was his car.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    It's all very James Bondish but you could be right.
    Something that sometimes happens, and I hope they didn't do, is that the HUMINT source might have been in the car with Emwazi. Their source could have been texting them "We are in a car now, we are moving to X" thinking that the Americans wouldn't strike him when he was in the car.

    They may have concluded he was worth the sacrifice (and he may well have been if he was an ISIL criminal himself, and had only turned for money). But it's a horrible thought, and a bit rich for my blood
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 雷尼克)
    I don't think many people realise that Mohamed Emwazi would never be captured. Even if ground soldiers entered Raqqa and attempted to drag him out, they would probably have killed trying. It was an opportunity to potentially save lives and it was therefore the right thing to do. It is absurd that people are saying it was wrong and he should have been given a formal trial because 1) that would glorify him as a war criminal as opposed to an executioner and 2) it doesn't send the message out that foreign jihadists are under threat and finally 3) it would be the most impractical mission to go into an IS stronghold and take a wanted terrorist out and bring him to the UK - if soldiers had entered Raqqa and started collecting prisoners, Emwazi would have followed his fellow IS soldiers to retreat elsewhere and would fight to the death because by definition these jihadists want to die fighting. Emwazi is dead and his legacy is now capped as a barbaric executioner.
    Agreed, absolutely.

    I don't think we should have risked our own soldiers lives to take this man into custody, it may have been another Blackhawk Down type situation. They had a shot and they took it. That was wise; imagine the outcry if it became known they'd had him in their sights but declined to fire.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Corbyn is doing an excellent job for the Tories. There's no way Labour will win an election with him leading the party.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by woIfie)
    Something that sometimes happens, and I hope they didn't do, is that the HUMINT source might have been in the car with Emwazi. Their source could have been texting them "We are in a car now, we are moving to X" thinking that the Americans wouldn't strike him when he was in the car.

    They may have concluded he was worth the sacrifice (and he may well have been if he was an ISIL criminal himself, and had only turned for money). But it's a horrible thought, and a bit rich for my blood
    I think you've been overdosing on Frederick Forsyth novels. But again, you might be right.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sephiroth)
    Corbyn is doing an excellent job for the Tories. There's no way Labour will win an election with him leading the party.
    Labour couldn't win a goldfish at a fairground with him in charge.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    If the Paris attacks turn out to be ISIS, will Corbyn change his mind?
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by 雷尼克)
    If the Paris attacks turn out to be ISIS, will Corbyn change his mind?
    No, of course not

    With regards to bin Laden, for a change the telegraph Posted the full quote and it was similar to this, the tragedy I'd it's a straight up assassination, rather than wasting resources taking him in.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 13, 2015
Poll
Do you like carrot cake?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.